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  1. #1
    Administrator Green Knight's Avatar
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    Hi



    This spell is listed as:



    Level: Mag 1, Clr 6, Sor/Wiz 6



    Mag 1? Is this correct or a typo?



    Cheers

    Bj°rn
    Cheers
    Bj°rn
    DM of Ruins of Empire II PbeM

  2. #2
    Birthright Developer irdeggman's Avatar
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    Originally posted by The Green Knight@Nov 11 2003, 12:43 PM
    Hi



    This spell is listed as:



    Level: Mag 1, Clr 6, Sor/Wiz 6



    Mag 1? Is this correct or a typo?



    Cheers

    Bj°rn

    I assume you are referring to the spell as written in the BRCS-playtest?

    The spell shouldn't list Mag at all. It is not on the magician's spell list on pgs 60-62. My guess as to what happened was that a different spell was copied for formatting but the reference to Mag 1 was not deleted.
    Duane Eggert

  3. #3
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    I always liked it but it should be a Mag3.

    They have no bloodline (mostly) and are using a transformation to make the target more like themself.

    Kind of a way to make them walk in someone else's shoes for a few miles.

  4. #4
    Site Moderator Ariadne's Avatar
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    Originally posted by destowe@Nov 22 2003, 06:21 PM
    They have no bloodline (mostly) and are using a transformation to make the target more like themself.
    If I understood it right, a Mag must be unblooded, so I would agree with irdeggman and still don't make it a magician spell at all...
    May Khirdai always bless your sword and his lightning struck your enemies!

  5. #5
    Senior Member Osprey's Avatar
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    Now why couldn't a scion be a magician or bard, or any other follower of the lesser paths of arcane magic (assuming others could be invented)? I've never read these things as being the sole province of the unblooded, it's more like "What mage in his true mind would be a magician when he could be a true wizard [or sorcerer, in 3e]?"
    The magician is nothing more than a conversion of the 2e original, which is that unblooded mages were limited to enchantment and divination (and illusion???...it's been a while...). So instead of hyper-limited specialist wizards, we've got the "lesser path" magicians (the equivalent of Raymond E. Feist's sorcerers, which is cool...) who use the more subtle and less power-hungry forms of arcane magic.
    What's interesting is that even these must still draw upon the mebhaighal, which brings up an interesting question: does every being have that spark of the divine or of mebhaighal? Or do only certain lucky(?) mortals have it, and that's why they have the "talent" to be magicians or bards?

    "Curioser and curioser I become..." <_<

  6. #6
    Birthright Developer irdeggman's Avatar
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    Osprey is correct, the BRCS in the spirit of 3rd ed did away with the requirement that magicians had to be unblooded (this was a requirement in the 2nd ed material). It just didn&#39;t seem to make sense to limit a scion in that manner, although any scion worth his salt would choose wizard over magician if only because of the more powerful spells, and then there are the bonus feats.

    In 2nd ed magicians were limited to spells of no higher than 2nd level in any schoo except for illusion and divination and were considered specialists in both schools while wizards were forbidden from specializing in either illusion or divination.

    There has been an on again off again discussion over whether the chancellor was a magician or a wizard. Being a scion the rules in 2nd ed forced him to be a wizard but there was a lot of "other" things that made it look like he was a magician. IMO, his personality and role fit better with him being a magician than a true wizard (more divination focused than fireball, etc.) But that is a discussion for another place and time. . .
    Duane Eggert

  7. #7
    Senior Member RaspK_FOG's Avatar
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    Well, take it this wasy: wasn&#39;t it totally illogical to say that humans had to be unblooded to take on the lesser path of the magician, yet elves and half-elves would still choose to become bards, also a lesser path of magic? :blink:

  8. #8
    Senior Member Osprey's Avatar
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    I don&#39;t think there&#39;s anything particularly weak about bardic magic - they just don&#39;t have the spell level progression of sorcerers. But I&#39;ve run several NPC bards with spell focus: enchantment, and dang&#33; they&#39;re potent&#33; But not so much now that 3.5 has dummed down the Spell Focus feat...alas. I suppose enchantment could be included in the "lesser path" list, though...

    One thing I&#39;ve always liked, again something I thank Mr. Feist for inspiring, is that mages of the greater and lesser paths have distinctly different magics, and that the lesser path magicians would know a few tricks that the greater path ones didn&#39;t...not just be specialists, but really have some exclusive spells from the divination and illusion schools that wizards and sorcerers of Cerilia can&#39;t do...things that are too subtle for the power pushers. Something to chew on, folks...

  9. #9
    Senior Member RaspK_FOG's Avatar
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    Nope, never said I find bards to be weak&#33; I love bards, serious&#33;

    For those of you who are interested, this is an addition I made (believe me, it works better this way, the bard class I mean):

    • Bard level requirements should be lowered by 3 levels.
    • Inspire Competence is gained at 1st level.
    • Perform ranks should stay as they are.
    • Also, give them an additional ability that creates a mind-affecting, sonic, fear effect with the ability to cause fear (you make up levels of fear as you like, but I suggest you use the fear standard effects), by making a use of bardic music for the day; the ability should be given at the same level as suggestion, have a Will save to resist, DC of 10 + 1/2 bard levels + Cha, and affect one creature plus one creature per 3 bard levels thereafter, except for a successful Will save (prevents further fear attack attempts for that day).
    • Give them all bows, please&#33;&#33;&#33;


    The reason for lowering bard level requirements for using the aforementioned abilities is that a bard should be able to multi-class: while a powerfull ability, bardic music isn&#39;t all the bard has, and if he is ditched in that part two, apart from spells and bardic knowledge... EEK&#33;

    As for unique spells, look at Song and Silence&#33; The fact that some of the spells made it to 3.5e PHB really is something... I loved the following spells a lot:

    • Improvisation
    • Protege
    • Fanfare (who said greater shout is the most powerful damaging sonic spell?)
    • Hymn of Praise/Infernal Thrynody
    • Healtful Slumber
    • Amplify
    • Easy Math (Rjurik, don&#39;t jump, the chasm is 30 ft... too late.)
    • Joyful Noise
    • Lullaby
    • Crescendo
    • Fortissimo
    • Harmonize
    • SUmmon Instrument
    • Allegro
    • Spectral Weapon
    • Harmonic Chorus
    • Song of Discord
    • Wail of Doom
    • Sympatheitic Vibration
    • Insidious Rythm

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