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  1. #1
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    In the Innocence lost playtest game a question came up about shipyards and they negotiated a solution.

    http://www.crownofglory.us/messageBoard/vi...p?t=18&start=30

    The problem is that by the current rules only Avanil can build Galleons.

    The solution they came up with is in the thread.

  2. #2
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    I do find it yet another glaring deficiency in the new d20 rules that only
    someone with a max shipyard in a level 8+ province can build galleons.

    Guess its just another gross oversight in the d20 book. But then again we
    have to be 3e compliant. Who cares if only one shipyard in all of Anuire
    can build galleons, its not like just about everypower in Anuire has at
    least one.

    -Anakin Miller
    -------------------------
    "What was sundered, shall be remade.
    What was stolen, shall be avenged. "
    - Engraved on the Crown of Diemed


    ----- Original Message -----
    From: "Rhobher Nichaleir" <brnetboard@TUARHIEVEL.ORG>
    To: <BIRTHRIGHT-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
    Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2003 11:19 AM
    Subject: Ship yards in D20 [36#1496]


    > This post was generated by the Birthright.net message forum.
    > You can view the entire thread at:
    http://www.birthright.net/read.php?TID=1496
    >
    > Rhobher Nichaleir wrote:
    > In the Innocence lost playtest game a question came up about shipyards
    and they negotiated a solution.
    >
    > http://www.crownofglory.us/messageBoard/vi...p?t=18&start=30
    >
    > The problem is that by the current rules only Avanil can build Galleons.
    >
    > The solution they came up with is in the thread.
    >
    >
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    Who are you to speak to me of loneliness, you who have not suffered as I have suffered. My father was lord of the Andu, ruler of a million souls, but not once did he ever claim me as his son. All those years I waited for a single word from him, a simple acknowledgment of my birthright. But, not even on his death bed did he claim me as his. So do not speak to me of your loneliness, you who have never been as alone as I have been all my life.

    - Prince Raesene Andu, -2 HC.

  3. #3
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    On Thu, 27 Mar 2003, Atarikid wrote:
    > I do find it yet another glaring deficiency in the new d20 rules that only
    > someone with a max shipyard in a level 8+ province can build galleons.
    >
    > Guess its just another gross oversight in the d20 book. But then again we
    > have to be 3e compliant. Who cares if only one shipyard in all of Anuire
    > can build galleons, its not like just about everypower in Anuire has at
    > least one.

    Don`t be a troll. That`s not an oversight, it`s a design decision.
    Galleons are the most advanced ships possible in Anuire. Not everyone
    should be able to build them.

    And you don`t find it a glaring oversight. You didn`t even notice until
    someone pointed it out. So stop being so mock-offended.
    --
    Communication is possible only between equals.
    Daniel McSorley- mcsorley@cis.ohio-state.edu

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  4. #4
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    > And you don`t find it a glaring oversight. You didn`t even notice until
    > someone pointed it out. So stop being so mock-offended.

    Hold on Daniel,

    I`m the one that brought it to light in the Inncocent Lost discussion forum.

    -Anakin Miller
    -------------------------
    "What was sundered, shall be remade.
    What was stolen, shall be avenged. "
    - Engraved on the Crown of Diemed

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    Who are you to speak to me of loneliness, you who have not suffered as I have suffered. My father was lord of the Andu, ruler of a million souls, but not once did he ever claim me as his son. All those years I waited for a single word from him, a simple acknowledgment of my birthright. But, not even on his death bed did he claim me as his. So do not speak to me of your loneliness, you who have never been as alone as I have been all my life.

    - Prince Raesene Andu, -2 HC.

  5. #5
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    IMC, only the imperial city could build galleons at the start of the game.
    But they sold them to everyone. It was a major source of income to them.

    /Carl

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  6. #6
    Birthright Developer irdeggman's Avatar
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    Is there a reason for the condescending tones here?

    IMO the real problem with the shipyards and build cost of ships is the "build cost" of the vessels. Note - who could build a Zebec? 17GB build cost.

    From a personal/professional level, I will point out that it is very, very expensive to build a vessel and very, very expensive to maintain a shipyard's building capacity.

    I've worked at Norfolk Naval Shipyard (NNSY) for over 20 years and do know something about shipyards and their overhead expenses. Oh by the way NNSY is the "oldest" naval yard in the US and the second largest naval shipyard in the world. Up until about 8 years ago it was the largest. It is also a stone throw away from Newport News Shipbuilding - the "only" facility in the world capable of building a Nimitz class carrier.([_]
    Duane Eggert

  7. #7
    Administrator Green Knight's Avatar
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    That was pretty insightful, and very eloqulent.

    >
    > Fra: Atarikid <atarikid@CHARTER.NET>
    > Dato: 2003/03/27 Thu PM 06:29:55 CET
    > Til: BIRTHRIGHT-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM
    > Emne: Re: Ship yards in D20 [36#1496]
    >
    > I do find it yet another glaring deficiency in the new d20 rules that only
    > someone with a max shipyard in a level 8+ province can build galleons.
    >
    > Guess its just another gross oversight in the d20 book. But then again we
    > have to be 3e compliant. Who cares if only one shipyard in all of Anuire
    > can build galleons, its not like just about everypower in Anuire has at
    > least one.
    >
    > -Anakin Miller
    > -------------------------
    > "What was sundered, shall be remade.
    > What was stolen, shall be avenged. "
    > - Engraved on the Crown of Diemed
    >
    >
    > ----- Original Message -----
    > From: "Rhobher Nichaleir" <brnetboard@TUARHIEVEL.ORG>
    > To: <BIRTHRIGHT-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
    > Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2003 11:19 AM
    > Subject: Ship yards in D20 [36#1496]
    >
    >
    > > This post was generated by the Birthright.net message forum.
    > > You can view the entire thread at:
    > http://www.birthright.net/read.php?TID=1496
    > >
    > > Rhobher Nichaleir wrote:
    > > In the Innocence lost playtest game a question came up about shipyards
    > and they negotiated a solution.
    > >
    > > http://www.crownofglory.us/messageBoard/vi...p?t=18&start=30
    > >
    > > The problem is that by the current rules only Avanil can build Galleons.
    > >
    > > The solution they came up with is in the thread.
    > >
    > >
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    Cheers
    Bjørn

    -------------------------------------------------
    WebMail fra Tele2 http://www.tele2.no
    -------------------------------------------------

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    Cheers
    Bjørn
    DM of Ruins of Empire II PbeM

  8. #8
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    Fleets have always been expensive. Only the riches nations of history ever
    built large fleet. But in antiquity, they generally generated was wealth
    through control of trade routes. A large fleet is a sign of an empire.

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  9. #9
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    I do find it yet another glaring deficiency in the new d20 rules that only
    someone with a max shipyard in a level 8+ province can build galleons.

    Guess its just another gross oversight in the d20 book. But then again we
    have to be 3e compliant. Who cares if only one shipyard in all of Anuire
    can build galleons, its not like just about everypower in Anuire has at
    least one.

    -Anakin Miller
    Yeah, I guess any grandpa in a fishing village could whip up a galleon on his spare time if he went for it.

    It could also be that most of those galleons came from the same shipyard(s), and were purchased, not built, by the "power" in question.

    Building a vessel the size of a galleon requires a lot of expertise and manpower in medieval terms; most fishing villages would be able to construct their own little fishing vessels, but they'd most definitely not be able to whip a caravel, far less a galleon. It'd also cost ruinous amounts for a small nation to build up the expertise and equipment necessary to do so, especially when you consider the "Birthright scale." As I recall, Venice was producing ships on a fairly industrial basis in late medieval/renaissance Europe. Then again, Venice had a population larger than the majority of Anuirean "nations." Reminds me of something, maybe. Or, it could just be gross oversight on my part.

    It is "realistic," after all, for a country like Osoerde, with its largest seaport being either a mudhole or having at most, say, 5000 people, to be churning out the galleons. And, now that I think about it, Diemed, Boeruine, and Alamie are all famous for their shipcraft.

    However, there is a couple of holes that need to be plugged concerning that rule, but they aren't necessarily related to your complaint.
    Jan E. Juvstad.

  10. #10
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    >
    > It is "realistic," after all, for a country like Osoerde, with its
    > largest seaport being either a mudhole or having at most, say, 5000
    > people, to be churning out the galleons. And, now that I think about it,
    > Diemed, Boeruine, and Alamie are all famous for their shipcraft.
    >

    Please tell me you meant Avanil, not Alamie.

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