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  1. #1
    Site Moderator Sorontar's Avatar
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    Gary <geeman@SOFTHOME.NET> said:
    > Elemental Control (An, Ba, Ma, Re)
    [snip]
    > The hit dice of the summoned elemental is equal to the amount of BP
    > spent on this ability. By spending 6BP you summon a 6HD elemental. (One
    > could tweak this however one likes using a system the Monster classes
    > presented in Savage Species.)
    > By spending +2 BP you triple the amount of time the elemental remains
    > after you stop concentrating.
    > By spending +2 BP you can summon two elementals per week (but only one
    > at a time.)
    > By spending +2 BP you can summon any creature from the elemental plane
    > associated with your derivation of HD equal to or less than an elemental
    > you are able to summon.
    > By spending +2 BP you are able to summon elementals from one of the
    > elemental planes adjacent to the plane associated with your derivation
    > (magma, steam, etc.) Note: you may continue to spend BP in order to gain
    > access to more planes adjacent to the ones you currently have access to.
    > By spending +2 BP you are rendered immune to all attacks from
    elementals
    > that you are able to summon.

    Excuse my for my naivity, but I don`t understand how the +2 BP works
    here. Are you saying that if I was granted 5 BP by the gods and my
    bloodline, then I could spend 3BP on Elemental Control which would
    enable me to summon a 3HD elemental for 4 rounds. But if I spent another
    2BP, could I use all of the above listed bonuses? And summon a 5HD
    elemental for 6 rounds? Or does that only allow me access to one of the
    listed bonus per +2BP spent?

    Or is the 3BP I spent already 1BP to get the ability +2BP for the
    bonus/es? If so, what would another +2BP do?
    Are the +2BP bonuses permanent, or can I change them at will during the
    game?
    Can I have reserve BP that I can use to power up any blood ability I
    have? If so, how many times can I do it and what is the cost?

    I realise that a lot of this is nothing like the original 2E Birthright
    design, but I thought it best that I point out that for someone like me
    (a 3E novice and a linguist), there are a number of ways to read these
    suggestions.

    And I *strongly* suggest/remind people that the best option for 3E
    Birthright is to just write the basic rules first as a framework. Then
    once everyone is aware of what shape the new Birthright has taken, we
    can start writing any new rules to introduce new character
    classes/races/bloodline abilities etc.. This seems to be the apporach
    that the BRCS developers have taken, with a lot more detailed stuff
    coming later in the Atlas. But they better watch they haven`t added too
    much to the base rules already. Just because 3E DnD now allows "Martian
    Nuclear Physicists"[1] doesn`t mean that the new BR has to as well. Get
    the basics to work, then allow for more.

    Sorontar
    [1] I know it doesn`t but look at the arguments about Noble etc.. Worry
    about these later.

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  2. #2
    Site Moderator geeman's Avatar
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    At 12:11 PM 3/5/2003 +1100, Michael Niemann wrote:

    >Excuse my for my naivity, but I don`t understand how the +2 BP works
    >here. But if I spent another 2BP, could I use all of the above listed
    >bonuses? And summon a 5HD
    >elemental for 6 rounds? Or does that only allow me access to one of the
    >listed bonus per +2BP spent?

    IIRC, the D20 Mutants and Masterminds text refers to these kinds of things
    as "enhancements" which is an apt term for my purposes too, so I`ll use that.

    Each of the options listed at the end of the blood ability description is
    an ENHANCEMENT that expands or otherwise improves the utility of the blood
    ability. Enhancements may increase the range, duration, frequency, scope
    or many other aspects of a blood ability. Bloodline point costs listed are
    for each of those enhancements.

    >Are you saying that if I was granted 5 BP by the gods and my
    >bloodline, then I could spend 3BP on Elemental Control which would
    >enable me to summon a 3HD elemental for 4 rounds.

    The duration listed was actually concentration plus your bloodline strength
    modifier in rounds. Tainted +0, minor +1, major +2, etc. So if your
    character had a minor bloodline strength and spent 3BP on increasing the HD
    of the elemental he summoned (to 3HD) it would stick around as long as he
    concentrated on keeping it and for 1 round thereafter. If he spent the
    remain 2BP on the enhancement that doubles the length of time the elemental
    remains after he stops concentrating then it would stick around for 2
    rounds after he stopped concentrating... which now that I look at it, I
    don`t like. It should be a flat number there, not doubling the bloodline
    strength bonus since that number is variable and the whole point is to use
    bloodline points in order to have some method of balancing blood abilities
    as a whole. This might be better:

    By spending +1BP you increase the amount of time a summoned elemental
    remains after you stop concentrating by 5 rounds.

    >Or is the 3BP I spent already 1BP to get the ability +2BP for the
    >bonus/es? If so, what would another +2BP do?

    I`m not sure I`m understanding these two questions, so if they aren`t
    answered by this post please rephrase so I can try to get to them.

    >Are the +2BP bonuses permanent, or can I change them at will during the
    >game?
    >Can I have reserve BP that I can use to power up any blood ability I
    >have? If so, how many times can I do it and what is the cost?

    They are permanent. Once you "buy" a bloodline and it`s enhancements you
    can`t "unspend" the points and then spend them on something else.

    I guess an argument could be made for doing that in those cases when
    someone commits an act of bloodtheft on a scion of Azrai and the blood
    thief`s bloodline derivation is overcome, or if someone should use the
    Magian`s bloodline corrupting spell.... After all many of the scion`s
    original blood abilities may not be available to him once his derivation
    has changed to Azrai. That one`s always been a bit of a hairball, though,
    in any of the bloodline systems.

    Because several of the enhancements cost 2 or more BP I think I would let
    someone "store" a bloodline point if they managed to increase their
    bloodline score in hopes of raising it again to the point where they could
    buy an enhancement that cost 2BP. That doesn`t mean, however, that they
    would have "a reserve" that they could use at a moment`s notice. As a
    guideline I`d suggest that bloodline points could only be spent between
    adventures, and even then only with the DM`s OK. During character
    generation I`d suggest that all BP should be spent unless the DM had
    something in mind for having the blood abilities appear over time as part
    of his campaign. (Several people have intimated at doing that kind of
    thing in their campaigns. A system of bloodline points makes it easier to
    see how that might be done.)

    >I realise that a lot of this is nothing like the original 2E Birthright
    >design, but I thought it best that I point out that for someone like me
    >(a 3E novice and a linguist), there are a number of ways to read these
    >suggestions.

    There needs to be some introductory text explaining how the system works,
    which would (hopefully) address all the questions you`ve raised above. I
    didn`t include such an introduction for two reasons; brevity and because I
    haven`t written it yet.

    >And I *strongly* suggest/remind people that the best option for 3E
    >Birthright is to just write the basic rules first as a framework.

    I disagree that that`s the best option for 3e Birthright. I don`t think
    anything _can_ be 3e Birthright, really. To me, if something varies more
    from the core materials than 2e did from 1e then it`s a whole different
    beast, and 2e wasn`t much different from 1e. The inclusion of new PC
    character classes is IMO enough to differentiate something from 3e. Even
    altering character classes from those presented in 3e is enough to make a
    setting "not 3e" anymore. The WoT setting, for instance, uses largely the
    same mechanics that 3e does, but there are enough differences that it is no
    longer "3rd edition." Having said all that... I`m not interested in "3e
    Birthright." What I`m proposing is more of a D20 Birthright. If for no
    other reason the suggestions I`m making are D20 because they borrows many
    ideas from various D20 products. There`s more than enough material in the
    Birthright setting so that it`s rules and game mechanics can be at least as
    innovative as other D20 products out there.

    I different way of determining blood abilities can be an awful lot to
    absorb, particularly without any introductory text and as a first draft
    that is just a tick or two above the brainstorming stage, but in the long
    run it`ll be worth it... and if not... Well, I`m not going to show up on
    anyone`s doorstep and force them to use what really amounts to my house rules.

    Gary

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