3rd Edition Birthright

[irdeggman]

PCyric, I feel left out. Everyone else seems to have been mentioned, well Mark Aurel wasn't either but he wasn't involved in the "discussion".

I do hope that when and in whatever means the community decides (see poll) the starter "rules" the development group has come up you will change your mind and actively participate in the discussion and suggestion cycle that will follow. This will most surely be a lively and enlightening discussion with many ideas and concepts that weren't previously thought of being brought to bear.([_]

[Caine]

Just to add my thrupenny bit...:P

I'd like to say that this thread is a little intoxicating.

When I first read that an 'official' birthright 3ed conversion was
in the tubes I was really delighted & looked forward to any news
about it whatsoever.

Reading the posting here and on associated threads it quickly became
apparent that the people who were giving a regular portion of their time
weren't working on some sort of uber-text that would lay all other conversions
to rest (I didn't think that anyone on the team was so arrogant to think that.
I may be naive but it doesn't hurt to think well of people who may be doing
me a favor.) but an attempt to create a complete conversion as well as they
could.
Now there is no way that I will agree with everything they do unless reality is
just trying to weird me out. But having played Birthright from 2nd Ed. through
enumerable extra rules both from the net and of my own & friends' concoction
to finally, Travis' 3.08 conversion (great stuff Dr. Doom. Thanks) I think I'm
going to grit my teeth & wait for the first release. January come swiftly...

The roundabout point I'm trying to make is that at no point did I have to use
any of the rules presented me. Even the original source material had blind spots
and failings. Everything does.

I really look forward to seeing the first release of this conversion and hope to help
playtest and thus to some extent develop it. Any others that come out now or later,
I will want to do the same for.

The baggage of having the term 'Official' appended to is, IMO, window dressing.
Like 'Original' the word attaches greater significance to a thing. But what real
difference does it make to the content?

Birthright is many things to different people and intricate to boot. Having seen the complexity of the existing conversions, it does sort of make sense to want to focus on getting the thing built then tinker with it, if you're going to try and top the existing material.

I like Gary's (Birthright - L) suggestion that people who feel they have something to add post their ideas. Either for perusal by those working on conversions or towards making their own. Ultimately whatever the d20 design team come up with, it'll be their work for us, anything else is in their heads. If we really hate them/it we can always ignore them.

As a small note, I like the FR setting. It's mixed, diverse, chaotic, varied. Birthright isn't the same and I'm glad of that.

Please address any responses ment for me to my email address at jan_stanek@yahoo.co.uk

Thanks for reading.

([_]

[PCyric]

irdeggman, I just posted as a reply to the various posts in the thread that aroused my curiosity and helped me make my own assumptions, on the persons who are part of this project. I am sorry that I have left you out, but your posts did not "urge" me to press the "reply".
I am sure you have offered a few projects in the community, but I am not aware of them. I am not all-knowing after all, and I will not post my opinion on your work, since I am not the right person apparently.
I sencerely hope that the project will work, and will be embraced by the fans, but I sencerely doubt this. IF I am wrong, time will prove this. I won't hide however in that case. Iwill be here to admit that I was wrong.
After all it has happened once again, in the FRCS 3rd edition.

[Magian]

the adoption of the delete key works for me however it does get tiresome
after a long week not checking my email. ;)



>From: Kenneth Gauck <kgauck@MCHSI.COM>
> I would prefer that the delete key be excercised
>quite a bit before ad hominem attacks are made. Those of an
>anti-intellectual nature are particularly unlikely to merit my sympathies.
>
>Kenneth Gauck
>kgauck@mchsi.com

A fallacy expert, wow, watch out when you argue with this guy.


ciao,


Paul

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[Fearless_Leader]

I've been watching the mailing list/ message boards for going on 5 years now... I don't often post or express my opinion here, largely because I prefer to listen to what everyone has to say and take what I believe are the best ideas and incorporate those into my own campaigns. I intend to do the same with the 3E rules once they come out.
I personally believe that it is better to have the entire project released at once, rather than in bit pieces. In this fashion, the entire document can be reviewed by the community at once and modified at that point in time. As long as this is done in a reasonable period of time, I don't have a problem with the 'closed' committee system. I believe January is a fairly reasonable timeframe in which to expect something. But even if it isn't out in January, I'm an understanding person... just so that reasonable time period doesn't extend into July of 2006.

And as for those who feel they're having 'dictates handed down to them from the Lord,' you're entitled to your opinions, but I just don't feel the same way. Most everyone on the d20 team that I am aware of are people whose opinions I've come to respect... and most of them have contributed quite a bit to the online community. So I have no real fear... and even if the whole thing turns out to be crap, so what... I only use the ideas I like anyway. I really can't understand some of the vitriole coming out of some people.

[Ariadne]

Originally posted by irdeggman

For example, there were several prestige classes posted. These are examples of specific ideas or concepts but not a complete addressing of the 3rd ed BRCS and they, as written, don't necessarily mesh with the rest of the project. Please don't read this as they never mesh, just that there are internal mechanics that should be preserved.

What exactly doesn't fit with the "official" BR 3rd Edition conversion? It can't be so much (the domains ARE surely of those gods) and if it's only the requirement or something, this can be changed...

May you please give a statement?

[morgramen]

Originally posted by Fearless_Leader
... and even if the whole thing turns out to be crap, so what... I only use the ideas I like anyway. I really can't understand some of the vitriole coming out of some people.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

I am no longer on the mail list, so much of the discussion has passed without my notice, so it's likely that I have completley missed the angle all this is coming from. I will admit to being taken by surprise by this entire "spirited charge".
In reading the posts on BR.net, I am slowly beginning to see what everyone is trying to convey, but in the end, I (as an individual) must agree with Chris. This project is not, nor will it ever be, the end all and be all of Birthright 3E. Even if 99.9% of the online community stamps it's approval on it, it's still in the power of the individual to completely disregard the entire book and go with what they want. If some DM out there wants to have a ring of 3 wishes on the hand of every PC, more power to them! Not my style of play to be sure, but each to his own.

In my personal opinion, people are taking this entire thing a tad too seriously, and assigining more clout to it than it actually deserves. Personally, I think the entire event horizon began when the word "official" was applied to it. If the BRCS project had been titled "A Bunch of Guys Who Are Making a 3E Conversion", I doubt it would have gotten so much attention.

At any rate, each to his own, and more power to you all. Find what works for you, and go with it. As long as you're having fun, then it doesn't matter what anyone else says.

Now, onto other matters.

[Ariadne]

Originally posted by doom

[...] My opinion is just that, an opinion. The important thing is what the list _as a whole_ wants. I`ve created a poll under the conversion news section of BR.net. Would _everyone_ please take a moment over the course of the next week to make your opinion known on that thread? Progress will continue as suggested by the majority opinion.

I've made my vote in your poll, but I couldn't reply it there, so I will try here. I voted for the first version, because I like as many opinions as possible (the difference to FR is, that all will be ready at once, not a little bit here and a little bit there). Since the conversion seems to be partly ready, I would find it cool to see the work chapter by chapter (all at once might be confusing, if you want to give your comment). Someone of the BR-team said, the new "official" rules are as close to the 3rd Edition rules, as possible, but I think, much of it can be interpreted, so a preview is useful! This is my personal opinion...

[Ariadne]

Err, folks... Where is doom's poll? Closed? If it is only skipped somewhere, please give the link...

[irdeggman]

Originally posted by Ariadne


Err, folks... Where is doom's poll? Closed? If it is only skipped somewhere, please give the link...

I asked him about that just earlier this week. It seems that this board and Travis don't get along too well, frequently (or at least it seems so) something happens to his posts (he says he hit the wrong key) and they vanish.

I'll ask him again to repost it. He did ask Arjan if it was possible to do a "restore" to get it back without having to start the poll all over again.