Palidin Reconquista...

[pwrobel@colba.ne]

On 15-Jun-98, Benji Craddock (craddock@iswt.com) wrote about [BIRTHRIGHT] -
>> Palidin Reconquista...:
>> -> Okay, I have a 5th level paladin regent who I boldly earned a domain in
>> ->on the ISLE of TAMLE.... I have the largest navy in the world, and an
>> ->average army.... Now, but how do I conquer lands to bring it under one
>> ->flag, MINE, when I am Lawful Good?
>>
>>

Why dont you ally yourself with another nation ( Avanil comes to mind ) ,
and when that nation goes to war , you support him ( he's your ally ) , by
declaring war on your ally's enemy , and you can conquer a few provinces ...
Just one problem watch out who you attack...

Phil

The Laughing Wolf!!!

[Phil Burge]

Trizt wrote:

> Thats true for all religions. Donä't forget that a "Paladin" has a quite
> limited army, as everyone has to be of LG alignment, otherwise the "Paladin"
> can't hire them. I know that TSR has tried to say that most people are LG, but
> IMO they are NG.
>



Where does it say that an army controlled by a Paladin has to be LG? I'm sure
that a paladin's "henchmen" have to be LG but an entire army? Seems abit far
fetched as the Paladin could not be sure of everyone -anyway, that's the rules
I'm using (I have a 11th level Paladin of Haylen - ruler of the combined states
of Roesone and Ghoere (He defeated Ghoere's army with the help of the alliance of
Southern rulers - Illien, Medoere (There have an understanding), Arwenwe and
Caelcorwyn (ruled by the local thief/ guild master - who has also managed to use
the troops he raised to help Roesone to capture Diemed - the Southern Coast
stands tall and proud and will soon be decimated due to the dreadful
plague...Mawhahahahaha....(evil DM laugh).

Anyway, that's it for now, remember, stay tuned, same bat time, same bat channel,

Phil

[The Olesens]

Phil Burge wrote:
>
> Trizt wrote:
>
> > Thats true for all religions. Donä't forget that a "Paladin" has a quite
> > limited army, as everyone has to be of LG alignment, otherwise the "Paladin"
> > can't hire them. I know that TSR has tried to say that most people are LG, but
> > IMO they are NG.
> >
>
> Where does it say that an army controlled by a Paladin has to be LG? I'm sure
> that a paladin's "henchmen" have to be LG but an entire army? Seems abit far
> fetched as the Paladin could not be sure of everyone -anyway, that's the rules
> I'm using (I have a 11th level Paladin of Haylen - ruler of the combined states
> of Roesone and Ghoere (He defeated Ghoere's army with the help of the alliance of
> Southern rulers - Illien, Medoere (There have an understanding), Arwenwe and
> Caelcorwyn (ruled by the local thief/ guild master - who has also managed to use
> the troops he raised to help Roesone to capture Diemed - the Southern Coast
> stands tall and proud and will soon be decimated due to the dreadful
> plague...Mawhahahahaha....(evil DM laugh).
>
> Anyway, that's it for now, remember, stay tuned, same bat time, same bat channel,
>
> Phil


AAHHHHH!! His armies don't have to be lawful good!! They could be
chaotic evil so long as they "act in such a manner when alignment is
unknown" (that is act lawful good).

What are you going to do, cast Detect Alignment Realm Spell or
something? You worry way to much is you are willing to go out and cast
Detect Alignment 800 times (4 units)?

Also "a paladin will cooperate with characters of other alignments only
as long as they behave themselves." THis is becasue "The paladin
realizes that most people cannot maintain his high standards."



About the population alignment thing, I think it is quite varied. You
have helpful, kind, friendly people who obay the laws, work together
well, and support democratic governments (sounds like the perfect Boy
Scout, Lawful Good). Then there are those who are helpful and all that
good stuff and don't mind working alone or in groups, whichever supports
the cause of good better (Neutral Good). Then thier are individulalists
who are all good and stuff (Chaotic Good, kina like Aerenwe's citizens).
I'll stop now but I'd say Laful Neutral is also seen pretty often.
Evil is around too.


IMO-Neutral Good is the most all-out good since they are not hindered by
lawfulness(less).

Lawful Neutral is the most lawful, w/o good or evil to bother them

Neutral Evil is the most all-out evil for the same reson as neutral
good.

Chaotic Neutral is the most all out chaotic since one musn't worry about
good and evil.

[Clayton F. Hinton]

>
>Thats true for all religions. Donä't forget that a "Paladin" has a quite
>limited army, as everyone has to be of LG alignment, otherwise the "Paladin"
>can't hire them. I know that TSR has tried to say that most people are LG,
but
>IMO they are NG.

In campaigns I've been in for Birthright, paladins are excempt from the
hiring restrictions for purposes of domain actions. This is for several
reasons, so instead of listing them here I will simply give an example:
King Arthur.

Besides, allowing yourself to be limited by hiring restritions makes your
entire domain threatened, probably by evil. Why a god would allow that is
beyond me. It's not just the Paladin who would be threated, it is his
loyal subjects as well, so it is arrogant to force them to share a
heightened risk of invasion because of the ruler's objection to hiring
anyone not of his ethos.

>
>Oh, I almost forgot, religous leaders who goes into war using their religion
>as a reason why to fight has to be really careful, that the god/goddess don't
>looks down and sees the wrong with the war, which can result that the
>"Paladin" becomes a standard fighter or the Priest looses all the spellpowers
>for ever.
>
Well, I can see a paladin reverting to Fighter status, but it would be
harder to do so. Using spies and boiling oil is acceptible in war for any
paladin, so actions taken by a paladin ruler should be viewed with the
"big picture" in mind. Giving evil an advantage in the world of the
politics of Anuire seems a bit unrealistic, considering that Haelyn is the
god of rulership. However, I would expect that assasinating a fellow
follower of Haelyn, who obviously has the powers bestowed on him by his
god, would no go unanswered by a loss of paladinhood emmediately.

Basically, as long as you are fighting true evil, or spreading the power of
your "good" realm for the purpose of fighting evil, I do not see how there
could be a problem. But just looking for an excuse to wage war seems more
like the way of Curraican than of Haelyn, and even then only against evil.

Paladin regents make interesting rulers, to say the least, but if they are
forced to live by the same restrictions as non-regent paladins, I do not
see how it is possible for them to rule effectively. An army of LG people
would be nigh-impossible to field. Certainly their liutenants should be
LG, as well as bodyguards, but not the army of their lands, not their
serfs, and not their vassals. Stupidity is not the religion of Paladins.

- -Clay Hinton
chinton@mail.utexas.edu

[DKEvermore@aol.co]

I'm going to just put in a very short 2 cents worth. In speaking of Paladin's
and their ability (or not) to make war, please note the Paladins of two gods:

Haelyn is the god of Noble War. Paladins must fight for justice and righteous
war. What makes a "good" war or a "bad" war depends on the views of the sect.

Cuiraecen is the god of Battle. Paladins will make war to prove themselves in
battle, and generally try to fight for the "right" side.

Remember that Paladins are holy WARRIORS, attempted to represent the martial
side of their deity to the best of their ability. Birthright Paladins are not
quite the same as the traditional AD&D paladins.

- -DKE

[pwrobel@colba.ne]

>I've seen this topic pretty much degenerate so I think I have found a way
to finish this once and for all . Instead of attacking , why not colonize on
Aduria ? There are plenty of lands west of Mieres , why not take those
instead ? For example , England was the dominant power of europe for
centuries because they were a colonial power , why not do the same ? Send
colonists to Aduria with a few units of troops to protect them . As the
colony expands slowly , you could take the law and temple holdings with
relative ease .

Phil



The Laughing Wolf!!!

[Solmyr]

I really think that a DM shouldn't let alignments interfere with politics
too much. That's the whole point of BR, it makes it different from your
basic good-vs-evil scheme. Granted, a paladin may have to watch his actions,
but consider this: when humans first came to Cerilia, they kicked the elves'
butt. Their ranks probably included a good number of good priests and even
paladins, yet Haelyn and the gang had absolutely no problem with that...

******************
Aleksei Andrievski
aka Solmyr, Archmage of the Azure Star
Visit the Archmage's Tower at
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html
Join the Mystaran Birthright PBEM at the above website!

[DKEvermore@aol.co]

In a message dated 98-06-17 14:09:16 EDT, you write:

> ->Cuiraecen is the god of Battle. Paladins will make war to prove
> themselves
> in
> ->battle, and generally try to fight for the "right" side.
> She don't start a war to go and prove herself, but join in a war which
> already
> takes place. Just starting a war will increase the amount of sufference
> which
> goes quite alot against the AD&D paladins etichal code.
>
Paladins of Cuiraecen are also Chaotic Good which also goes against (thank
goodness! ;) the usual Paladin's code.

This CG Paladin could easily justify starting wars, especially holy wars,
because for them, battle is GOOD. He he, how do like that for twisted
morality? But medievel politics, no ALL politics are littered with such
moralities.

- -DKE

[Trizt]

On 17-Jun-98, Aleksei Andrievski (solmyr@kolumbus.fi) wrote about Re:
[BIRTHRIGHT] - Palidin Reconquista...:
- ->I really think that a DM shouldn't let alignments interfere with politics
- ->too much. That's the whole point of BR, it makes it different from your
- ->basic good-vs-evil scheme. Granted, a paladin may have to watch his actions,
- ->but consider this: when humans first came to Cerilia, they kicked the elves'
- ->butt. Their ranks probably included a good number of good priests and even
- ->paladins, yet Haelyn and the gang had absolutely no problem with that...
Haelyn didn't care as he was one of those elf murderers. I can agree that you
have to overlook the alignment from time to time. But the paladin class is
quite powerful and has alot of benefits (that you can't disagree about) and
one of those limits which makes it possible for an paladin to have all those
great benefits is the strict alignment code.
If you don't think that the most important limitation can be overlooked, then
why not do that for all the classes, what about a mage who is allowed to use
armor and cast spells at the same time and use swords and polearms without any
TACH0 penelties, magicians who can use spells from all schools and cast realm
magic, bards who gets regency from owning source holdings, priests able to use
weapons banned for his religion, fighter using magic and so on.


//Trizt of Ward^RITE

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