Low level vs high level

[Endrin Helrick]

In my group we are having some problems going from the low level 2E birthright to the very powerful 3E and 3.5E. I am trying to get some advice on how you guys are keeping it low level or are you adapting to the higher levels of 3rdE mainly because of the prestige classes. Some of them are almost to good to pass up.
Do you allow regents of countries to have the same prestige classes. If you bump up the levels of people in the books how do you know how high to go.
I know when 3E first came out they had a conversion manual that you could print out and i did and still use alittle bit.
Also what about epic characters. We have been adventuring 3 seperate campaigns and all 3 groups are approaching or already are at epic levels. What have other gamers and DM's done about this.
Need some advice thanks.....

[Benjamin]

One way you can keep it low powered is to cut back on any magical items. If a treasure has it, give it a 50% (or whatever) chance of being there. If the roll is too high, then drop the magic item and forget that part of the treasure. Keeps down magic as well as money.

Another way to keep it low powered is to cut XP in half. That will slow advancement a lot, so players will realize a 7th level warrior is to be feared and respected.

It's all in how the DM handles things. If s/he allows lots of power, the PCs will become overwhelming quickly. If the DM limits treasure and XP, then things will stay balanced in a low power setting.

[teloft]

Other way is to play the NPC/monsters like they have some wit. and by thet creating much harder encounters then there reward counts for.
But ofcours, cuting tresure where there is to much.

I dont remember the thum rule of standard D&D conversion.
but it was something like a 17 lv character in 2ed would be 22 lv in 3ed

[CMonkey]

Originally posted by Benjamin@Jan 30 2004, 01:34 PM
Another way to keep it low powered is to cut XP in half. That will slow advancement a lot, so players will realize a 7th level warrior is to be feared and respected.

That's what I do.

I also use grim and gritty HP, so no matter what level you are a greataxe critical will probably still kill you.

Oh, and doubled the cost to create of magic items and reduced their occurences by a factor of about 10.

CM.

[Azulthar]

I also use grim and gritty HP, so no matter what level you are a greataxe critical will probably still kill you.

Amen. I use (a modified version of) the grim and gritty combat system as well. It fits so well with the lower-fantasy setting of Birthright, IMO.
Levels become less important (while natural attributes such as size become all the more important). Players will be very careful with a giant, no matter what level they are.

- Azulthar

[teloft]

Originally posted by Azulthar@Jan 30 2004, 06:59 PM
Amen. I use (a modified version of) the grim and gritty combat system as well. It fits so well with the lower-fantasy setting of Birthright, IMO.
Levels become less important (while natural attributes such as size become all the more important). Players will be very careful with a giant, no matter what level they are.

- Azulthar

Do tell. How is your system. what housrules do you use.

[kgauck]

I felt that the low character levels just left out too much potential for

character specialization, a role kits used to help play in 2e. So I really

don`t go for a low level world any more. You are right to consider

"adapting to the higher levels" because 3e really flowers at higher level.

And some PrC`s just are too good to pass up.



Bumping up regents. I wait until the game is under way and then start

migrating the regents up slowly. I also kill some off and start with

characters who are a few levels below the PC`s, but no higher than 5th or

6th level (unless I`ve been grooming a rival for the players).



PrC`s. I use them freely, because they make characters so much more

interesting. A lot are goofy (trans. not suitable for BR), some are

overpowered, but others are just what the doctor ordered.



I do like the low magic setting of BR, and so have ruled that spellcasting

level can only amount to half of a character`s total levels. I end up

making (or re-writting) PrC`s that swap spellcasting progression for

abilities that augment spellcasting, like skill points, item creation, and

low-powered/high flavor abilities. This makes it hard to be a generalist

mage, but specialists are still cool, because they have skills, feats, and

abilities that accentuate their specialization.



I agree with some of the other posters who reign in magic items, especially

permenent ones. I am currently working on rules that make more powerful

permenent magic items require master artisans to create better than

masterwork items to take magics better than +2 or equivilent.



I also recomend using more profound aging rules, so that older characters

experience what Ars Magica (another game system) describes as decrepitude.

As characters experience real aging (and with it increasing vulnerability)

its nice to encourage them to play their own heirs. This creates a

situation where rather than play imortal characters who just keep

accumulating levels, their characters begin to age and they "retire". Older

characters might run the realm actions while their younger heirs adventure.

Older characters can still come out to meet the gravest threats. But

eventually you want the older characters to die so the heirs can take over.

I recomend that PC`s look to marriage and producing heirs as soon as they

can, since you want at least 14 years to pass between marriage and the first

use of your heirs. Starting PC`s married with youngsters helps in this

regard. Spouses that are viable characters should either create

complications for the PC (mostly in time and obligation, not by putting them

in jeopardy) or alternatly count as a cohort. Spouses that are built as

pure noble class characters make excellent people to leave at court while

you are away.



I`m kind of getting away from the question asked, so I`ll stop here. But

ultimatly switching from the immortal who gains levels for a hundred years

to a family (dyanstic) model of play makes it easier to avoid epic levels or

super-powerful characters.



Kenneth Gauck

kgauck@mchsi.com

[Endrin Helrick]

What do you guys think about epic characters in BR? Do you think that with there travels the Gorgon would try to assassinate them or even Ghore. Do you think a party of epic creatures could threaten the Gorgon and kill him if needed. Do you think any other Regents would be of epic level. At what level do you think most regents should quit adventuring and pay more attention to the kingdom?

Just some questions i would throw out for more conversation....

[Azulthar]

Do tell. How is your system. what housrules do you use.

I'm sorry, but it's simply too much to fully describe here. You have hitpoints equal to your full Constitution score, with only a minor class level-based advancement. AC is called Defense Class or Dodge Class and is *not* increased by armor, but by Dex and class levels. Instead, armor gives a Protection score, which reduces damage.

For example: normally, a 3rd-level Fighter (Dex 12, Con 13) wearing Scalemail would have an average of 30 hitpoints and an AC of 16. Under the "grim-n-gritty" rules, the same fighter would have 16 hp (+3 from fighter levels), a DC of 13 (+1 from fighter levels) and a protection of 4 (scale mail).

This is a basic description of the core of the grim-n-gritty rules as I remember them. I've changed quite a bit in the meantime...

What do you guys think about epic characters in BR?

Scions only. Same goes for high level characters. In my campaign, non-blooded gain a 10% XP penalty per level, up to a maximum of 90%. So a 1st level character receives a 10% penalty while a 6th level character receives a 60% penalty. This makes high-level, non-blooded characters a rarity. But Scions advance using the normal rules, and can advance beyond level 20 as Epic characters (also impossible for non-blooded characters).


- Azulthar

[Ariadne]

Originally posted by Azulthar@Feb 2 2004, 09:19 PM

What do you guys think about epic characters in BR?

Scions only. Same goes for high level characters. In my campaign, non-blooded gain a 10% XP penalty per level, up to a maximum of 90%. So a 1st level character receives a 10% penalty while a 6th level character receives a 60% penalty. This makes high-level, non-blooded characters a rarity. But Scions advance using the normal rules, and can advance beyond level 20 as Epic characters (also impossible for non-blooded characters).


- Azulthar

Ugh... up to 90% XP penalty for no-blooded? Who still playes one in your campain?

Generally I like epic characters (even in BR) and IMO there are enough "monsters" to chalange a higher level PC party. At first naturally awnshegs, but if you expand your campaign to the shadow world, there is enough space for new "unspeakable horrors".