Sideprojects: Birthright utility / Game

[Mirviriam]

Arjan:

That's the point of this thread- to get us to a place where we have a meeting about the project plan...it's all wide open to discussion. Once we have a meeting, we decide if this project needs it's own webspace/forum/irc room/everysingle detail possible on how we will accomplish this & what to be done.

I have a word document of my plan...I was hoping to get everyone's idea's from the meeting before I influence them.

Are you suggesting no meeting & just see I can get people to sign on to a project without having input?

Rowan:

I definitely like how simple access db's are, my only consideration is publishing it from the webportal. My experience is more with sql, but we can either import the access into sql later or just figure out how to host it for everyone to edit who needs to (sql allows multiple editors, I can't recall if access has or not ... been 8 years).

[ggacura]

If you are considering a windwos client I would reccoment the XNA framework from Microsoft. I have been messing with it making a RTS game for about a year to so and it is working nicely.

[Mirviriam]

I also think that a good planning is fundamental to the success of the project. Specially defining the scope of the project and what are the goals and deliverables to be produced by it.

About technology, I wouldn't worry too much. Mostly anything the team agrees will be able to run the game unless it becomes incredibly ambitious.

All of my plans are grand & my scheme's scare even myself in their audacity!

Though the first part of the test should be really basic. Maybe just make Endier, Spiderwood & another nation work with like 4 basic game actions. If we use inheritance it will be a simple matter to add in new game actions by the programmers & then create a webinterface or program that lets DM's make the rest of the continent.

[Mirviriam]

If you are considering a windwos client I would reccoment the XNA framework from Microsoft. I have been messing with it making a RTS game for about a year to so and it is working nicely.

Thanks, I'll poke it next weekend - tell us about your RTS & how that's going?

[Mirviriam]

I'll write exactly what I want for the first part of this test & have it up within a week hopefully. I do not really know the 3rd Edition rules so it will be in 2nd for speed's sake.

How deeply do we want to go for my plan? Scope/exclusions/technology or deeper into the pseudo-code, inheritance structure, datafile formats, object (if we use c++)/function listings?

[AndrewTall]

I'll write exactly what I want for the first part of this test & have it up within a week hopefully. I do not really know the 3rd Edition rules so it will be in 2nd for speed's sake.

Ideally the system would have fairly minimal dependence on any of the D&D systems - the key aspect to the computer system is the domain ruleset, realm design, battles, etc. For that you can probably rely on a handful of 2-4e stats only and use a converter for whichever D&D ruleset is used (i.e. each non-weapon prof +2 on an action, each 5 skill points +1, etc on actions).

One possible goodie would be to have the lookup table for income and expenses to be in a readily editable format (like excel for example) with each user saving their preference as a 'campaign setting'. That would allow DM's to choose source income rules, add holding types (just have 2 slots for each type and have the spares set to zero RP/GB/etc in the standard) if they so desired.

The actions would then be fixed, outcome generators and bidding and so on, but the system would still allow people to tweak the system for their preferences.

I'd do the same with unit attack, defense, speed, morale etc - have a single success generator but allow units to be easily tweaked.

[Mirviriam]

One possible goodie would be to have the lookup table for income and expenses to be in a readily editable format (like excel for example) with each user saving their preference as a 'campaign setting'. That would allow DM's to choose source income rules, add holding types (just have 2 slots for each type and have the spares set to zero RP/GB/etc in the standard) if they so desired.

One of the things I'm struggling to express is this idea you put there Andrew - except excel is too simple for what we need. Excel/access doesn't spread around the world instantly.

1) Programs write three things, a database, a database tool to fill in information, a program to use the information

2) Rest of non-programmers in birthright generate tons of content at their leisure for years to come (NPCs, provinces, domains, items, army units, etc)

3) When a new ruleset comes out, a DM uses the tool to right the ruleset adaption. Then slight changes from programs to make sure program works.

4) I forgot...

5) Eat tons of cotton candy.

6) Pointless, we have the cotton candy.

7) Take over the world anyways, because somewhere out there someone else is making more cotton candy & it might be better than what we have.

Update: I reread the BCRS playtest again - took more notes, working on outline of what I want for the mini-test. All other status updates on hold till we figure this out. Next update Wed or Thursday after my finals (24 credits are killing me )

[Vicente]

I wouldn't go for a spreadsheet or a database for the game rules. A simple XML or custom plain text format should do. See PCGen for example, they use text files to load the rules, characters,... Although they have a fairly complex syntax for those files.

Adding easy to edit files encourages non-technical people to contribute writing those rules files (and helps "modding" the game as it's easy to customize rules).

XML or plain text files are also easier to parse and to deploy.

[Magian]

So we are looking at the domain structure. Using the BRCS for an outline of what is needed would be a good idea. Bringing the domain rules into the program seems to be the main goal. If you want some ideas on a pre-existing program Birmail could give you a good idea of how to organize the program or at least take into consideration all the different aspects that should be considered. Link below.

http://sourceforge.net/projects/birmail

The toolbar on top of the program shows the different types of data. There is the database that has all the realm and character info that is going to be editable per campaign.

Manual data has all the particular data items that make up a realm that is selected into the database when making characters, realms, diplomatic links, tributes and such.

The static data really doesn't affect much of the realms its mostly fill in stuff to consolidate notes. This is where the area of 2nd AD&D, 3E, and 4E stuff would come in. Also there is stuff that is BR specific that wasn't used in the database for modifying anything. Again pretty much notes even if its a bloodline.

There is an Actions menu that goes into the actual program that uses all the data for running the income / action phase of the game. This is where you'd need the actions, perhaps a basic kind of action format could be used cause there are some actions that are allowed and others that are not as per the campaign. I'd like to see some way I as a player could create my own actions with a tool editor for this. Also this is where all the things that function at the income / action level are. So in Static data there are the realm spells, but those are just notes. Here in Actions are the realm spells as they affect the domain level of play within the program. So if we need to be redundant like that its understandable for simplicity. This would include any modifiers like skills, blood abilities, spells, and other domain effects that can be factored into the equation outside of the core domain setup itself.

I really believe dissecting this program a bit may be helpful to see what has been done, and how to improve upon it for this current project. In the least it would give an idea of what will need to be mapped out. There are many functions like an editable map, website output, mailing report, and dice roller all of which are pretty much built in and a function of the action bar. Heck I remember creating a rivers system to determine what hull size each river could support for ships all the way up to the source.

Anyway, I know this is a bit of a messy post I hope you can navigate it. Oh and if anyone has the BR viewer program would ya let me know in PM or something I'd really like to check it out. Ideally the editing system would be simple like BR viewer, or at least the proposed BR viewer 2.0.

[Mirviriam]

I won't be able to do anything with the pbem till after finals are up. Anyone have an old campaign still up & hosted that I might be able to look through in a week?