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Thread: Chapter 6

  1. #1
    Senior Member ploesch's Avatar
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    Chapter 6

    Me again,
    Chaper 6 is allot to absorb, it's jam packed with so much great informaton.

    It mentions battle cards, is that just a term, or are we really going to use Battle cards again? I like the battle cards.

    I found a typo on page 18.
    Characters that are captured are usually held for random or as hostages, but may be slain by merciless adversaries.
    I think you meant "ransom." =)

    Table 6-8 should have ranges, IMO. I get what it means, but ranges will be less confusing for some.

    Overall the chapter is really well done. I can't wait to play with 3E Battle rules, they seem much better than 2E.

  2. #2
    Senior Member ploesch's Avatar
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    Under Special Rules it mentions that eteran Units may have 1 area of special training, but Elite units cna have 2.

    There are no Elite units listed under Experience. I may have missed it, but I don't see any place mentioning how a unit is consdered "elite".

    I would say a unit couldn't start elite, perhaps it must be a veteran unit for at least a year, and hve been involved in several combats. There should also be an increased maintenance cost for an elite unit to represent the higher wages such troops would receive.
    When you play the game of thrones you win or you die.
    George R. R. Martin - A song of Ice and Fire

  3. #3
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    I always assumed it should be Green = 0, Normal = 1, Vetaran = 2

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    It is. i assume they started off with the term Elite and changed their minds and switched to Veteran or vice versa part way through.

    Though there is no reason why you couldn't have elite troops as well...

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    Senior Member ploesch's Avatar
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    The rules list under Experience Green, Standard and Veteran with +0, +1, +2 muster cost and +0, +2, +4 morale respectively. Under Special training it mentions that Veteran units can get one special training, and Elite units can have 2. That's where my confusion is.

    If it's supposed to be Standard can have one special Training, and Veteran can have 2, then that's fine, but for the final version it should be fixed.

    If there is supposed to be an Elite experience level, then that's great too, but for the final version that should be clarified. I like the idea of an elite level that can't just be bought, such as the unit must be trained up (using training rules) to be elite or something along those lines.

    Either way, the rules should be clarified for final version, and I would like some clarification.
    When you play the game of thrones you win or you die.
    George R. R. Martin - A song of Ice and Fire

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by ploesch
    TI like the idea of an elite level that can't just be bought, such as the unit must be trained up (using training rules) to be elite or something along those lines.
    The way the rules are designed, it costs exactly the same for a unit to be bought "as is" or to be bought inexperienced and then "trained up". For game balance reasons, I suspect.

    Sure, it's nice to have the idea of units that can't start off elite, but while that may make some sense for something like goblins or even humans, it is less easy to justify for dwarves and exceedingly difficult for elves (in both cases due to both the extended life span and the fairly violent past histories - humans and goblins have had the violence, but many of those involved in the big fights are quite possibly too old to be active combatants by now).

    In any case, there really isn't anywhere for elite units to "go". Elven units can have any number of training options already; no "normal" unit can have better than a 18 defense (heavy armour + Def training) which means that even if you develop "elite training" (say +4 instead of +2, prerequisite that they already have the advanced training) it doesn't make that much of a difference.

    In a sense the "unit of reknown" qualifies as "elite" in your sense - it can't be just "bought", although it doesn't take any particular training.

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    Birthright Developer irdeggman's Avatar
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    Basically under the special training entry it should be:

    Green, Standard and Veteran not green veteran and elite.

    If you check the tables 6-1 the units called Infantry, Elite correspond to what a veteran unit would get.

    In 2nd ed the units were called Elite and that is how the confusion came about.

    "Elite" has a much better sound to it than does "Veteran".
    Duane Eggert

  8. #8
    I assume this is the right place to ask. Is it possible to just have a clarification on fortifications?

    It says that with fortified holdings, you have to pay double the maintenance cost of an UNfortified holding, but I wasn't aware that you had to pay maintenance. At the same time, it also says that for fortified provinces, you have to pay double the maintenance of an UNfortified province. Help! I'm a tad confused.

    I tried to look elsewhere in the rulebook for examples of maintenance on provinces or holdings, but all I can find is the income you get from them. The thing I can only assume is that to fortify a temple (4) is costs 4 GB in maintenance? That seems like a lot...

    Also, another question: if you fortify your PROVINCE, are your HOLDINGS automatically fortified, too?

    Hope there's someone here to answer this query.

    Thanks!

  9. #9
    That passage is in error. The maintenance cost for a fortified holding is 1/3 GB per level of fortification; as per chapter 5, table 5-4.

    As to whether or not fortifying a province fortifies your holdings... kind of.

    As I understand it, the point in having a fortified holding is that it cannot be automatically reduced by a hostile army using the Occupy Province action. The only way to destroy a fortified holding is to Contest it (or, I suppose, reduce the population of the province to a level below that of the holding). So if you have a Guild 4, and 2 levels of Fortification on it, an occupying army cannot reduce your guild below level 2 (without using Contest and so on). A fortified holding does not force an invading army to neutralise it, however - they can just pass straight through if they so wish.

    A fortified province requires an invading army to leave behind a number of units equal to the province fortification level ("neutralise the fortification"). In addition, it can protect a number of holdings equal to its level; therefore, a province fortification level 2 can protect up to 2 levels of guild, law, or temple holdings. This works as above for holding fortifications; most often, a province ruler will probably choose to have it defend his law holdings. So it's still worthwhile to fortify your holdings even if the province is fortified.

    It's not clear whether units left behind to neutralise a province fortification can count as occupying the province; I would assume not. If that's the case, then the province fortification still protects holdings by making it harder to occupy the province - but not as surely as a fully fortified holding would.

  10. #10
    Thanks! That makes a lot more sense.

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