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Thread: Goblins

  1. #1
    Senior Member Osprey's Avatar
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    So it has come to me today, in the midst of designing some champions of Markazor...why is it that goblins, described as a somewhat civilized race in Birthright, aren't a PC race? Or at the very least, a better-developed NPC race? Just saying they're the equivalent of the 3 goblin races in the Monster Manual is rather...weak.

    I know there's been talk before about goblin attributes and racial features, but why not add a decent history, racial description (if goblins are one blended race, some explanation is needed, as the 3 goblin races are fairly seperate and distinct in the default Greyhawk setting). In Cerilia, goblins seem to take the "orc niche" of Greyhawk as the primary evil humanoid race. While there are stats for the 3.5 goblins as characters, I think it would be smart to emphasize this and reprint it with the racial description under Goblins in Ch 9.

    Another possibility would be to add a few goblin prestige classes: one for priests of Kartathok, a goblin champion/warchief, and a wolfrider PrC (raider).

    I once used the Cavalier PrC for the champion of the Spiderfell. A small, but tough, goblin ranger/fighter who became the best of the best of the wolfriders there. Man, oh man, was a nasty bugger with his spear (light lance) against those hated humans.

    Also, I think Kartathok and his followers should get more attention, though this task could be shared with the Atlas.

    Goblins as a civilized race is a cool twist on the orcish "humanoids are foul, evil, and always want to kill you if they can." Rather, goblins are, in the eyes of humans, probably ugly, brutish, crude, smelly, and generally unpleasant to be around. So I expect those who do hang out in human lands would suffer from fairly severe prejudice towards them.

    What do folks at BR.net think of all of this? Should goblins get some extra attention as a race comparable to the PC races?

    Osprey

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    Birthright Developer irdeggman's Avatar
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    Actually that was something the Atlas group was going to include when they got to the demi-/non-human areas. It was also felt that would be a good place to insert material to make them playable as PCs.

    By the way I agree with you the goblins were not developed well enough in the 2nd ed material. they were common enough and civilized enough and heck could even be magicians (check the MM (I can't remember if it was compendium III or IV) on Cerilian goblins and the card sheet with them described - both list a 5 of magicians amongst the number of appearing).
    Duane Eggert

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    Senior Member RaspK_FOG's Avatar
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    One of the things I wanted to point out as well but always had something to work on... Thank you, Osprey, for pinpointing a serious issue, and Irdeggman, for having it in mind.

    I will try and see what I can come up with on the matter, OK?

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    In a message dated 2/23/05 1:19:20 AM Eastern Standard Time,

    brnetboard@BIRTHRIGHT.NET writes:



    << What do folks at BR.net think of all of this? Should goblins get some

    extra attention as a race comparable to the PC races? >>



    Yes.



    Lee.

  5. #5
    Senior Member Thomas_Percy's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Osprey@Feb 23 2005, 06:57 AM
    3 goblin races are fairly seperate and distinct in the default Greyhawk setting). In Cerilia, goblins seem to take the "orc niche" of Greyhawk as the primary evil humanoid race.

    one for priests of Kartathok, a goblin champion/warchief, and a wolfrider PrC (raider).
    It&#39;s a good idea to play a bad guy such as Uruk-Hai or a non-evil exile from evil goblins society.

    Cleric of Karthatok, barghests, possession by evil spirits, sacrifices, bloody divinations, war dances&#33;
    Wolfraider - a Mongol-like barbarian, worg as a paladin mount possessed by evil spirits.

  6. #6
    Birthright Developer irdeggman's Avatar
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    [/quote]I know there&#39;s been talk before about goblin attributes and racial features, but why not add a decent history, racial description (if goblins are one blended race, some explanation is needed, as the 3 goblin races are fairly seperate and distinct in the default Greyhawk setting). In Cerilia, goblins seem to take the "orc niche" of Greyhawk as the primary evil humanoid race. While there are stats for the 3.5 goblins as characters, I think it would be smart to emphasize this and reprint it with the racial description under Goblins in Ch 9.[/quote]

    I wouldn&#39;t put it in Ch 9. I would put goblins in the Atlas when describing the
    Markazor and other goblin nations.

    I would also use the stats from Savage Species, especially the racial levels to allow a character to start at 1st level as a huge goblin (i.e., bugbear). I&#39;d have to check the WotC site to see if they did a write of of racial levels for bugbears when they did their savage progression series (I don&#39;t think they did but. . .).

    My point about not including them in Ch 9 is that the goblin race is far to complex to be reduced to a few paltry paragraphs which is all the space they could get in the BRCS. There are far too many things that need addressing - the war with the elves and the goblins slavery at their hands, the rise of the Spider (that would be a great place to include it IMO) and so on.

    Also playing a goblin PC would not neccessarily lock a PC into being evil, IMO, just the prejudice of those around. Heck a goblin in Mhoried for example could very well be good and mostly accepted by society there (base on the Mhore&#39;s creed).
    Duane Eggert

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    Osprey schrieb:



    >This post was generated by the Birthright.net message forum.

    > You can view the entire thread at:

    > http://www.birthright.net/forums/ind...ST&f=36&t=3006

    >

    > Osprey wrote:

    >I know there`s been talk before about goblin attributes and racial features, but why not add a decent history, racial description (if goblins are one blended race, some explanation is needed, as the 3 goblin races are fairly seperate and distinct in the default Greyhawk setting). In Cerilia, goblins seem to take the "orc niche" of Greyhawk as the primary evil humanoid race. While there are stats for the 3.5 goblins as characters, I think it would be smart to emphasize this and reprint it with the racial description under Goblins in Ch 9.

    >

    >Another possibility would be to add a few goblin prestige classes: one for priests of Kartathok, a goblin champion/warchief, and a wolfrider PrC (raider).

    >...

    >What do folks at BR.net think of all of this? Should goblins get some extra attention as a race comparable to the PC races?

    >

    Is the Atlas still supposed to be written from an human, anuirean

    viewpoint, like the original 2E one? If so then I would say that more

    information or even more prestige classes only for goblins would not

    fit. They exist, and successfully so in several realms but an Anuirean

    would certainly see them more like a nuisance to large to get easily rid

    of with whom one must arrange and not something worth a chapter.

    bye

    Michael



    >

    >

    >

  8. #8
    Birthright Developer irdeggman's Avatar
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    Originally posted by ConjurerDragon@Feb 23 2005, 01:10 PM
    Is the Atlas still supposed to be written from an human, anuirean

    viewpoint, like the original 2E one? If so then I would say that more

    information or even more prestige classes only for goblins would not

    fit. They exist, and successfully so in several realms but an Anuirean

    would certainly see them more like a nuisance to large to get easily rid

    of with whom one must arrange and not something worth a chapter.

    bye

    Michael



    I would say no, not the 2nd ed Atlas storytelling format.

    Ian has already posted several sections from the Atlas for discussion/comment - check out the Atlas forum for details.
    Duane Eggert

  9. #9
    Site Moderator geeman's Avatar
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    Osprey writes:



    > What do folks at BR.net think of all of this? Should goblins get

    > some extra attention as a race comparable to the PC races?



    The "test" I would use for determining whether or not a race should have a

    PC-playable type write up is whether or not that race has population levels

    at the BR domain level. That would mean that yes, goblins should have such

    a write up and so should orogs and gnolls. Goblins --> orogs --> gnolls

    should probably be the order of priority for such write ups too since that

    is approximately their representation among the population of the continent.

    That is, I`d be most concerned about getting a good description of goblins

    before orogs (even though orogs are more interesting as villains IMO) and

    orogs before gnolls.



    Gary

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