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Thread: What if...?

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    Since killing a scion with the blood of Azrai (especially an awnshegh) may turn the slayer into an awnshegh himself, what would happen if someone who already is an ehrshegh slays such a person? What would happen to the Fae if she manages to kill the Gorgon?

  2. #2
    heheh, maybe becomes the dark fae?
    "Who was the first that forged the deadly blade? Of rugged steel his savage soul was made." --Tibullus

    "Qui desiderat pacem praeparet bellum." --Vegetius

    "Men grow tired of sleep, love, singing and dancing sooner than war." --Homer

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    anacreon schrieb:



    >This post was generated by the Birthright.net message forum.

    > You can view the entire thread at:

    > http://www.birthright.net/forums/ind...=ST&f=2&t=2710

    >

    > anacreon wrote:

    > Since killing a scion with the blood of Azrai (especially an awnshegh) may turn the slayer into an awnshegh himself, what would happen if someone who already is an ehrshegh slays such a person? What would happen to the Fae if she manages to kill the Gorgon?

    >

    She becomes stoned.

    bye

    Michael

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    Site Moderator geeman's Avatar
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    At 08:30 AM 6/29/2004 +0200, anacreon wrote:



    >Since killing a scion with the blood of Azrai (especially an awnshegh) may

    >turn the slayer into an awnshegh himself, what would happen if someone who

    >already is an ehrshegh slays such a person? What would happen to the Fae

    >if she manages to kill the Gorgon?



    The BoR indicates that there is a chance that a scion whose bloodline is

    corrupted by Azrai`s in an act of bloodtheft against an awnshegh will take

    on characteristics of the awnshegh he slew. However, in the case of an

    ershegh who has existing transformations I don`t think that need

    necessarily be the case, especially if the theme of the slain awnshegh is

    very different from that of the ershegh who killed him. That`s not to say

    the character would be unaltered. In your example, I think the character

    would remain, essentially, "the Fae" but she`d turn into a dark and

    degenerate version of that same basic theme. One could compare such a

    character to Rhoubhe Manslayer who is a kind of perverse--almost

    parodic--version Sidhe hatred for humanity. "Dark Fae" (awnfae?) would be

    a kind of warped sylvan creature who remains connected to the nature that

    surrounds her but in an essentially unwholesome manner.



    If you think about almost all the awnsheghlien there`s really no reason why

    they have to have Azrai`s bloodline rather than some other. In a few

    cases, it seems like the awnshegh would be just as apt as ershegh. I`m

    thinking of the Siren and the Wolf in particular. The character

    descriptions for those awnsheghlien make them out to be benign or even

    benevolent. Several other awnsheghlien could be reinterpreted (or, rather,

    another character with the same theme might be imagined) that is not

    corrupted but elevated by the transformation. I`ve fiddled around with an

    ershegh that is much like the Gorgon in many regards, but isn`t evil or

    corrupt in the way that character is. I don`t know if that ershegh will

    get its own write up, but it is definitely possible to do something like

    that. Point being that an ershegh corrupted by Azrai`s bloodline could

    simply be redefined to fit that new, degenerate role.



    Gary

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    I think it would depend on the reasons that the killing was made.... Did she kill the Gorgon to boast about it? Then turn her into an evil awnie. Did she kill him in self-defense? Do nothing... Did she kill him to save an innocent child or whatever? Reward her

    Also, in the case of bloodtheft, why did she bloodtheft him? Didn't she do it for power? Is that not greedy on her behalf? Should she not be punished for it? (for some reason, greed and powerlust should not be the goals of a good ehrshegh..)So, actually..., if she bloodthefts the Gorgon, she chose to do it to gain power and that is not good... She has to pay for dat

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    Originally posted by A_dark@Jun 30 2004, 01:57 AM
    IAlso, in the case of bloodtheft, why did she bloodtheft him? Didn't she do it for power? Is that not greedy on her behalf? Should she not be punished for it? (for some reason, greed and powerlust should not be the goals of a good ehrshegh..)So, actually..., if she bloodthefts the Gorgon, she chose to do it to gain power and that is not good... She has to pay for dat
    hmmm... Where does it say that one has to commit bloodtheft in order to be so corrupted? The BoR only says: "When a non-awnshegh kills one of these powerful monsters, that character’s own bloodline (if any) can succumb to that of the awnshegh, provoking a frightening transformation." (p. 24) No mention of bloodtheft at all.

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    Birthright Developer irdeggman's Avatar
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    Originally posted by anacreon+Jun 30 2004, 12:35 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (anacreon @ Jun 30 2004, 12:35 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-A_dark@Jun 30 2004, 01:57 AM
    IAlso, in the case of bloodtheft, why did she bloodtheft him? Didn&#39;t she do it for power? Is that not greedy on her behalf? Should she not be punished for it? (for some reason, greed and powerlust should not be the goals of a good ehrshegh..)So, actually..., if she bloodthefts the Gorgon, she chose to do it to gain power and that is not good... She has to pay for dat
    hmmm... Where does it say that one has to commit bloodtheft in order to be so corrupted? The BoR only says: "When a non-awnshegh kills one of these powerful monsters, that character’s own bloodline (if any) can succumb to that of the awnshegh, provoking a frightening transformation." (p. 24) No mention of bloodtheft at all. [/b][/quote]
    BoR pg 24 "The Short Road"

    "Use the following guidelines to determine whether a character who kills an awnshegh and commits bloodtheft on the creature. . ."
    Duane Eggert

  8. #8
    Birthright Developer irdeggman's Avatar
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    I tend to agree with Gary on a lot of this Awn versus Ersh stuff. But I don&#39;t think that ershegh are as powerful as awnshegh. Not the straight up equal ones that is. What I mean is that the transformations, while similar are different. The ershegh transformation is voluntary while the transformation to awnshegh is not. IMO awnghegh and ershegh with equal bloodline strengths and levels are not equal in power because of this.

    That is pretty much the main reason I haven&#39;t put together an ershegh transformation process like the awnshegh one for the BRCS yet. They need to be similar but different and the ershegh one needs to be weaker because it is more controlled, IMO.
    Duane Eggert

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    Site Moderator geeman's Avatar
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    At 11:43 AM 6/30/2004 +0200, irdeggman wrote:



    >I don`t think that ershegh are as powerful as awnshegh. Not the straight

    >up equal ones that is. What I mean is that the transformations, while

    >similar are different. The ershegh transformation is voluntary while the

    >transformation to awnshegh is not. IMO awnghegh and ershegh with equal

    >bloodline strengths and levels are not equal in power because of this.That

    >is pretty much the main reason I haven`t put together an ershegh

    >transformation process like the awnshegh one for the BRCS yet. They need

    >to be similar but different and the ershegh one needs to be weaker because

    >it is more controlled, IMO.



    From what I can tell if one wants to portray a character as weaker than

    another in 3e/3.5 one does so with character levels and/or ability

    scores. If awnshegh or ershegh are unequal in power as part of the system

    (that is, the ershegh class is demonstrably weaker than the awnshegh class)

    it throws off any considerations about CR, ECL, etc. not to mention throws

    off the supposedly balanced character class system.



    Even were that not the case, I think most awnshegh are more powerful than

    ershegh not because of the nature of their transformation alone, but by the

    extent of their transformation. That is, awnsheghlien tend to embrace the

    changes or those changes are involuntary, where ersheghlien don`t

    necessarily do either. They are more powerful because they are more

    transformed, which means they have more levels (or equivalent LA) in their

    transformation, if that makes sense. From an actual play standpoint,

    however, they are simply more powerful characters, having total ECL values

    higher than ersheghlien.



    If one were to imagine certain ershegh themes, however, is possible to see

    how they might be very powerful (read: have lots of levels in an ershegh

    class or other character effects.) The Phoenix, for example, could be a

    very powerful ershegh as might a character like the Titan. Either of those

    themes might be used to devise a character that could rival any of the

    existing awnsheghlien right up to the big G.



    To a certain extent, of course, this stuff has to do with the theme of the

    character in question being fundamentally more powerful than other

    themes. One probably wouldn`t want an ershegh called the Pixie to have 20

    levels in an ershegh class. That tends to be the case for awnsheghlien as

    well as ersheghlien, however. One wouldn`t necessarily imagine an awnshegh

    called The Stirge to have 20 levels in such a class either. I tried to

    keep the Gremlin and the Imp relatively low level because giving them 12+

    levels starts to actually work against the theme of their awnsheghlien

    transformation since that transformation is in many ways definitively less

    powerful than others. One _could_ extend their levels up as high as one

    wants, of course. Even right up to the epic level and beyond, but it would

    be more than a little strange and might stretch believability. On the

    whole, there are probably more powerful awnsheghlien themes than

    ersheghlien, but that has more to do IMO with the fact that monstrous

    creatures tend to exist as foils for heroes who are a sort of superhuman

    beings. We have, therefore, a lot more prototypical monsters upon which to

    base such characters in mythology, literature, etc.



    Gary

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    Birthright Developer irdeggman's Avatar
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    Gary,

    Using a 20 level class for comparison would make it have to be even because of 3.5 concepts. But I was talking about the UA bloodlines comparison which works outside of classes. The &#39;empty&#39; class levels (total of three available) are used to account for the gradual LA occuring as the character goes up in character level. The awnshegh one I wrote included a LA at those level to account for the &#39;extra&#39; power resulting from the transformations. What I&#39;d do is to reduce the benes gained along the way for the ershegh and knock the LA adjustment down (probably by 1 for each empty class level). This would reflect the difference in equivalent power and still capture the progressive transformation process inherent to both, IMO. Also the ershegh transformation wouldn&#39;t occur until the character wished it (then all of the benes would be backwards filling). Once the transformation starts it is irreversable, IMO. Although it can be fought (hence the exp penalty for resisting the change and not taking the requisite number of awnshegh/ersheg class levels).

    Another way to handle this is via prestige classes. The awnshegh prestige class would have more levels (say 10) while the ershegh would have less (3-5) it all depends on how someone wanted to handle this. But the different number of prestige class levels would reflect the difference in power overall, although each level would be roughly equivalent.
    Duane Eggert

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