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  1. #1
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    General consensus among rpg players who show up in my living room is that they might well be intersted in the world of Birthright if they didn't have to bother with D&D 3.0 (let alone 3.5).

    After some consideration (I'm fond of second edition Runequest, other alternatives include Exalted and Champions -- but I'd like something with less dice to roll, and re-roll every action) we'll probably try FUDGE (The Freeform, Universal, Do-it-Yourself Gaming Engine), for flexibility, enough rules to minimize "Did!" "Did not!" method of skill resolution, and free basic download of rules.

    Before re-inventing the wheel, wondered if anyone had already done Fudge conversion work?

  2. #2
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    > General consensus among rpg players who show up in my living room is that they might well be intersted in the world of Birthright if they didn't have to bother with D&D 3.0 (let alone 3.5).After some consideration (I'm fond of second edition Runequest, other alternatives include Exalted and Champions -- but I'd like something with less dice to roll, and re-roll every action) we'll probably try FUDGE (The Freeform, Universal, Do-it-Yourself Gaming Engine), for flexibility, enough rules to minimize "Did!" "Did not!" method of skill resolution, and free basic download of rules.Before re-inventing the wheel, wondered if anyone had already done Fudge conversion work?





    I`ve never used FUDGE, but share both your love of Birthright and disdain

    for D&D. I`m currently working on converting Masterbook to Birthright (and

    a little vice-versa), but am torn on exactly how to handle magic. My

    love/hate relationship with Masterbook has been driving my players crazy.



    -Lord Rahvin
    NOTE: Messages posted by Birthright-L are automatically inserted posts originating from the mailing list linked to the forum.

  3. #3
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    I have been thinking about a DragonQuest version of Birthright, myself. I'm mostly interested in the realm-level game facets, not the background or the magic of the BR setting.

    I'd be interested in further information about other system-neutral approaches to Birthright.

    I'm not a regular on this board, but I can be reached at dq-rules-owner@yahoogroups.com

  4. #4
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    I personally believe that FUDGE is much more about ROLE - playing, than D&D.

    More generic rules, and less tedious and useless mechanics.

    Converting the BR setting in FUDGE system could not be that hard! This is an

    idea I like.

    Maybe I will give it a try, with the help of others of course..



    Jason



    ----- Original Message -----

    From: <lordrahvin@SOFTHOME.NET>

    To: <BIRTHRIGHT-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>

    Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2003 5:20 AM

    Subject: Re: [BIRTHRIGHT] Fudge Br (game System, Not Euphemism) [2#1960]

    >

    >

    > I`ve never used FUDGE, but share both your love of Birthright and disdain

    > for D&D. I`m currently working on converting Masterbook to Birthright

    (and

    > a little vice-versa), but am torn on exactly how to handle magic. My

    > love/hate relationship with Masterbook has been driving my players crazy.

    >

    > -Lord Rahvin

    >

    >



    >

    > Birthright-l Archives:

    http://oracle.wizards.com/archives/birthright-l.html

    >

    >
    Drogthik, male dwarf Paladin <The Venture Co>
    Daerth, male undead Mage <Defias Brotherhood>

  5. #5
    Senior Member ryancaveney's Avatar
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    On Tue, 16 Sep 2003, Landsturning wrote:



    > General consensus among rpg players who show up in my living room is

    > that they might well be intersted in the world of Birthright if they

    > didn`t have to bother with D&D 3.0 (let alone 3.5).



    =) They sound like very sensible folks.



    > After some consideration (I`m fond of second edition Runequest,



    This would be an interesting one! BR-RQ should definitely have some sort

    of interaction between bloodline and POW. If you do this, I`d love to see

    the cult writeups you come up with for the Cerilian gods. OTOH, BR is

    very deeply opposed to the RQ-Glorantha paradigm of *everyone* has at

    least some magic; some thought needs to go into how to adapt this.

    Another name I`d toss at you is Pendragon.



    > other alternatives include Exalted



    Excellent art. Don`t know anything else about it, though. :}



    > Before re-inventing the wheel, wondered if anyone had already done

    > Fudge conversion work?



    I`m quite sure this was done many moons ago. There was a guy on the list

    who used to talk about Fudge all the time, but sadly I can`t quite seem to

    remember his name (help me, fellow old fogies -- Dustin Evermore, perhaps?

    I`m pretty use it was a D-somebody, at least). Finding his conversion,

    though, is a whole `nother ballgame.



    The archives at http://oracle.wizards.com/archives/birthright-l.html don`t

    seem to help, but then they only go back to late September 1999, and this

    list was around on a different server for several years before that. I

    did find archives of the MPGN list from November 1996 to November 1999 at

    http://www.rpgcastle.com/archives/list.php?a=b but that contained no

    references to Fudge either -- there are 12 MB of them, with no obvious

    date range gaps, but still they seem distinctly incomplete to me. There

    was even an older list before that, but that goes back before my time (so

    they can`t contain the discussions I`m remembering, but they would be even

    more fascinating to me...). Does anyone have access to the truly ancient

    mailing list archives? Ian, maybe?





    Ryan Caveney

  6. #6
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    On Thu, 18 Sep 2003, Ryan B. Caveney wrote:

    > The archives at http://oracle.wizards.com/archives/birthright-l.html don`t

    > seem to help, but then they only go back to late September 1999, and this

    > list was around on a different server for several years before that. I

    > did find archives of the MPGN list from November 1996 to November 1999 at

    > http://www.rpgcastle.com/archives/list.php?a=b but that contained no

    > references to Fudge either -- there are 12 MB of them, with no obvious

    > date range gaps, but still they seem distinctly incomplete to me. There

    > was even an older list before that, but that goes back before my time (so

    > they can`t contain the discussions I`m remembering, but they would be even

    > more fascinating to me...). Does anyone have access to the truly ancient

    > mailing list archives? Ian, maybe?



    Mmm, I don`t think there was a list before MPGN. They hosted all of

    tsr/wizards` game lists from the time they were founded, until wizards got

    their own listserver set up.



    --

    Daniel McSorley

  7. #7
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    Ryan wrote:
    ”This would be an interesting one&#33; BR-RQ should definitely have some sort of interaction between bloodline and POW. If you do this, I`d love to see the cult writeups you come up with for the Cerilian gods. OTOH, BR is very deeply opposed to the RQ-Glorantha paradigm of *everyone* has at least some magic; some thought needs to go into how to adapt this. “

    While not an exact mapping, at a very rough first approximation, everyone could potentially cast common (or old spirit magic), as anyone could theoretically learn magician spells or be eligible to cast clerical spells with appropriate lifestyle commitments – and have only the blooded be able to learn runespells. If spell costs are used (converting RQ silver pieces to D&D gold pieces), few peasants will have the major fraction of a gold bar to learn spells. (For those not familiar, human essentially had 3d6 hit points, and many freehold famers or hunters might know a spell to do set hair on fire, or do d3 damage, or briefly make a light in darkness. Not major – until you calculated effects of a milita or warband with hundreds of them.)

    I’d enjoy doing cult/culture writeups.



    I’ve been buying Pendragon for a long time, but not playing it (alas, more interesting games than available hours). Did you see Dave Dunham’s Pendragon Pass?

    I’d like doing clerical advancement including picking 5 traits of their deity as their way of emulation. There are also Fudgedragon conversions …

    To be continued,

  8. #8
    Senior Member ryancaveney's Avatar
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    On Thu, 18 Sep 2003, Landsturning wrote:



    > have only the blooded be able to learn runespells.



    Yes, that works.



    > If spell costs are used (converting RQ silver pieces to D&D gold

    > pieces), few peasants will have the major fraction of a gold bar to

    > learn spells.



    Ah, yes! Good point.



    > Did you see Dave Dunham`s Pendragon Pass?



    Not in the original `zines, but his web site covers most of it. If I

    start a new Glorantha campaign, that`s the system I think I`ll be using.



    > I`d like doing clerical advancement including picking 5 traits of

    > their deity as their way of emulation.



    I actually posted suggested personality traits for each religion on this

    list in early July, in a thread entitled "ArM4 conversion of clerics".



    Here`s my first draft:



    > Haelyn -- Honest, Just, Merciful, Temperate, Valorous

    > Erik -- Energetic, Generous, Prudent, Temperate, Suspicious

    > Cuiraecen -- Energetic, Proud, Reckless, Indulgent, Valorous

    > Nesirie -- Forgiving, Generous, Arbitrary, Merciful, Pious

    > Ruornil -- Lazy, Pious, Prudent, Temperate, Suspicious

    > Sera -- Energetic, Selfish, Deceitful, Worldly, Suspicious

    > Avani -- Generous, Honest, Just, Modest, Prudent

    > Eloele -- Lazy, Selfish, Deceitful, Suspicious, Cowardly

    > Laerme -- Lustful, Vengeful, Proud, Worldly, Indulgent

    > Kriesha -- Vengeful, Selfish, Arbitrary, Cruel, Suspicious

    > Belinik -- Vengeful, Cruel, Proud, Reckless, Valorous



    I`d be happy to discuss why I made the picks I did, and talk about ways to

    improve them.





    Ryan Caveney

  9. #9
    Senior Member ryancaveney's Avatar
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    On Thu, 18 Sep 2003, Daniel McSorley wrote:



    > Mmm, I don`t think there was a list before MPGN. They hosted all of

    > tsr/wizards` game lists from the time they were founded, until wizards

    > got their own listserver set up.



    OK, I could believe that, too -- I was just going by what I read in the

    first few messages of the archives, which I could have misinterpreted.



    The welcome message at the start of the MPGN list talks about "when the

    AD&D Lists moved here", implying they were somewhere else before, and is

    signed "Your list admin dude (except for the TSR lists, which are still

    admin`ed by their respective parties)," but it also talks about "new"

    lists, of which BR is one (though the sentence could be read -- as I

    initially did -- as saying those lists were just newly hosted by MPGN).



    The first few messages also looked like continuations of previous

    conversations, but on closer inspection they actually turn out to be all

    new threads, just in a mixed-up order. For the record, the very first

    thread, entitled "First Post?", is about Birthright as a wargame, which

    morphed quickly into a discussion of alternatives to the war cards. =)





    Ryan Caveney

  10. #10
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    On Mon, 22 Sep 2003, Ryan B. Caveney wrote:

    > The welcome message at the start of the MPGN list talks about "when the

    > AD&D Lists moved here", implying they were somewhere else before, and is

    > signed "Your list admin dude (except for the TSR lists, which are still

    > admin`ed by their respective parties)," but it also talks about "new"

    > lists, of which BR is one (though the sentence could be read -- as I

    > initially did -- as saying those lists were just newly hosted by MPGN).



    Yeah, I guess there probably was an ADND-L somewhere before MPGN, but the

    birthright list was first on MPGN.



    > The first few messages also looked like continuations of previous

    > conversations, but on closer inspection they actually turn out to be all

    > new threads, just in a mixed-up order. For the record, the very first

    > thread, entitled "First Post?", is about Birthright as a wargame, which

    > morphed quickly into a discussion of alternatives to the war cards. =)



    You, sir, have too much free time :)



    --

    Daniel McSorley

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