Birthright ADnD

[kgauck]

----- Original Message -----
From: "Lord Shade" <lordshade@SOFTHOME.NET>
Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2003 1:29 AM

> I`m afraid I don`t understand at all what this means, Kenneth. :o
>
> Stack all divine spellcasting levels? Isn`t that what +1 caster level
> PrCs do?

Let`s say, you are a Cleric 3/Druid 3. You are a 6th level priest of Erik,
who has aquired 3 level of Erik`s cleric class features, and 3 level of
Erik`s druid class features. You can cast Remove Blindness, Summon Nature`s
Ally III, and Prayer (for example), because as a 6th level caster of divine
spells, you have access to 3rd level spells. You would be just as powerful
as a 6th level cleric or a 6th level druid.

Kenneth Gauck
kgauck@mchsi.com

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[Mourn]

Originally posted by kgauck
Let`s say, you are a Cleric 3/Druid 3. You are a 6th level priest of Erik,
who has aquired 3 level of Erik`s cleric class features, and 3 level of
Erik`s druid class features. You can cast Remove Blindness, Summon Nature`s
Ally III, and Prayer (for example), because as a 6th level caster of divine
spells, you have access to 3rd level spells. You would be just as powerful
as a 6th level cleric or a 6th level druid.

But if you were a Cleric 5/Druid 5, you could cast Animate Dead as a 10th-level caster. Why would a druid's affinity for natural casting help you defile nature?

[Eosin the Red]

> Mourn wrote:
>

Originally posted by kgauck
> Let`s say, you are a Cleric 3/Druid 3. You are a 6th level priest of Erik, who has aquired 3 level of Erik`s cleric class features, and 3 level of Erik`s druid class features. You can cast Remove Blindness, Summon Nature`s
Ally III, and Prayer (for example), because as a 6th level caster of divine spells, you have access to 3rd level spells. You would be just as powerful as a 6th level cleric or a 6th level druid.
>

>
> But if you were a Cleric 5/Druid 5, you could cast Animate Dead as a 10th-level caster. Why would a druid`s affinity for natural casting help you defile nature?


I guess the answer is another question: Who lets their cleric/druid priest of Erik cast Animate dead?

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[kgauck]

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mourn" <brnetboard@TUARHIEVEL.ORG>
Sent: Sunday, March 16, 2003 5:28 PM


> But if you were a Cleric 5/Druid 5, you could cast Animate Dead
> as a 10th-level caster. Why would a druid`s affinity for natural
> casting help you defile nature?

Depends on the specific temple. Erik does not grant necromatic spells (let
alone ones with the Evil tag) to any spellcaster. Why would Erik grant such
a spell at all, cleric or druid? Kriesha, on the other hand would have no
problem with it for either clerics or druids.

Kenneth Gauck
kgauck@mchsi.com

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[Raesene Andu]

Originally posted by Eosin the Red

I guess the answer is another question: Who lets their cleric/druid priest of Erik cast Animate dead?

Exactly, I think Erik would have quite a lot to say that particular caster, and perhaps Ruornil as well. Personally, I would allow the cleric/druid to cast Animate Dead, but then the next time he goes to cast a spell, have it fail on him because Erik has withdrawn his support of the caster, thus the evil leaning caster would have to either atone for his actions to try and hook up with some other god (and waste those 5 levels of Druid).

[Mourn]

Originally posted by Eosin the Red
I guess the answer is another question: Who lets their cleric/druid priest of Erik cast Animate dead?

A DM that allows their players the freedom to perform nearly any action, but will make them pay for it.

A DM that doesn't arbitrarily say "Nope, you can't cast that spell, even though it is on your spell list."

Here's another non-Necromancy example... Druids don't get Iron Body, but a Cleric of Erik gains it as an 8th-level domain spell (of Earth). Since the druid class has no knowledge of that spell, why would its spellcasting ability aid in it? A wizard, on the other hand, has the spell, so why shouldn't a Clr18 of Erik/Wiz2 be able to cast it as an 20th-level Cleric?

[ryancaveney]

On Mon, 17 Mar 2003, Mourn wrote:

> A DM that doesn`t arbitrarily say "Nope, you can`t cast that spell,
> even though it is on your spell list."

That particular spell simply shouldn`t be on the list. I know, I know,
3e did away with spheres. I think it was a terrible idea, and should
essentially be ignored in Cerilia. The priests of the Cerilian gods
originally had very distinct (and in some cases almost non-overlapping)
spell lists, so I think any conversion to any RPG system at all should
maintain that if it wants to maintain a halfway-decent model of Cerilia.


Ryan Caveney

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[kgauck]

----- Original Message -----
From: "Raesene Andu" <brnetboard@TUARHIEVEL.ORG>
Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 2:49 AM

> Exactly, I think Erik would have quite a lot to say that particular
> caster, and perhaps Ruornil as well. Personally, I would allow the
> cleric/druid to cast Animate Dead, but then the next time he goes
> to cast a spell, have it fail on him because Erik has withdrawn his
> support of the caster, thus the evil leaning caster would have to
> either atone for his actions to try and hook up with some other god
> (and waste those 5 levels of Druid).

I wouldn`t allow them to cast the spell (as a priest of Erik) because I
would ask, in what sacred text of Erik did the caster see such a spell? In
what holy poem was such power and its use endorsed? Where were the
compants, prayers, and gestures learned to draw down the power of Erik for
such a purpose?

Kriesha, on the other hand ...

Kenneth Gauck
kgauck@mchsi.com

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[kgauck]

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mourn" <brnetboard@TUARHIEVEL.ORG>
Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 4:07 PM


> Here`s another non-Necromancy example... Druids don`t get Iron
> Body, but a Cleric of Erik gains it as an 8th-level domain spell (of
> Earth). Since the druid class has no knowledge of that spell, why
> would its spellcasting ability aid in it? A wizard, on the other hand,
> has the spell, so why shouldn`t a Clr18 of Erik/Wiz2 be able to cast
> it as an 20th-level Cleric?

Why assume that the gods make distinctions between classes? I`d be inclined
to say that the distinction is just a mechanical meta-game question.
In-game I refer to all clerics of Erik as druids because I don`t think there
is a meaningful difference between them. The distinction between arcane
magic and divine magic is huge. One comes from gods, the other is a fabric
of nature. Knowledge of the prayers which summon the power of heaven grants
you no power to manipulate the secrets of the natural world.

Kenneth Gauck
kgauck@mchsi.com

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[Gortlock]

3rd ed made several changes that in my opinion have improved the overall system.

One was the elimination of multiclassing restrictions.

Another of my favorites is the spontaneous casting of cure spells for clerics.

3rd ed also went to a skill based system of proficiencies.

You are not the first or only person to object to 3rd edition. There are many people who still prefer the "old" 2nd ed mechanics and there are those who object to being "coerced" into spending hard earned cash on a whole new set of books.

I am a throw back to the 70's. I grew into "2nd ed" and modified it more or less as you indicated 3.5 has done. I never used class/level restrictions. My spell users can cast any spell they know. I even used a "mana" system for a while. The mana system was based on a pool of mana that could be used to cast spells for a certain cost per spell level and varied based on the power used to amplify the spell. If you want a good proficiency/skill system look at Runequest. I also modified my skills to reflect a Runequest based skill system.

Your last statement hit it right on the head. I think WotC made D20/3.5 D&D to generate more money. They were used to magic crack heads buying booster packs like a crack hoe buys rocks. Their D&D mini's is not actually a bad game. I seen it played a few times but the randomness of the booster packs means someone could spend thousands of dollars to get enough of the correct figures.

Bottom line is I will not waste the money on 3.5 stuff or D&D mini's. In fact I am making the line of DDM's on heavy card stock printed in color (not to scale although) for my kids, they love them.