At 04:49 AM 8/7/98 -0400, you wrote:

>> From: Morgramen the Magician > > Birthright is a great place, but it has a stereotype of being too

>> > political. I know this from experience with my gaming group. they
found

>> > the rules to complex, and thus, we just found Cerilia to be a land
of

>> > great adventure, and other people can rule it. I didn't mind this,
but

>i

>> > think if there had been more literature and such for them to read=20
- -

>they

>> > would have come to love birthright as much as i have.

>> >

>> I agree that Birthright has gotten a 'bad rap' as too political. =20
It

>seems

>> to me that it was marketed as a strategical war game (which it is)
but

>should

>> also have been supported by the typical Forgotten Realms/Greyhawk
style

>of

>> typical role playing material. I truly believe that if TSR had

>supported the

>> existing material with the more typical role playing supplements,
then

>> Birthright would have appealed to a much larger market. I must say

>however,

>> that the existing material can easily be adapted for the more
traditional

>> fantasy realm style of play, but IMHO, many people either a) Did not
want

>to do

>> the extra work or b) never bought into BR as a result of this lack.

>> Now as I understand things, TSR was going to do this very thing
with

>the

>> relaunch of the product line, and if my opinion counts for anything,
I

>think

>> they should. A cleaner version of the existing rules, and greater
depth

>on the

>> setting and NPC's (such as seen in FR & Greyhawk) could only draw=20
new

>> customers. I mean, we would all still buy the new products, and all
the

>people

>> who hated BR because of it's 'traditional inadequacies' would no
doubt

>take a

>> second look at the product line. Hence, sales could only IMPROVE!

>

> OK, this is the idealist in me speaking. He doesn't get out very
much,

>usually my cynical side kicks him around, so I'll let him go for a
bit...

> The political stuff is the fun of BR! It's what sets it apart from

>Greyhawk and the Realms, etc etc. W/o domain stuff, BR would just be

>another generic fantasy setting, admittedly with rather well developed

>cultures. And I love the domain stuff. It is fun to play a=20
struggling

>regent, just starting out with barely a footman to your name. And it
is

>really rewarding to get him up to having a well developed, well
defended,

>civilized realm, a power to be reckoned with, and to start wheeling=20
and

>dealing with the big boys, Avanil and the Gorgon, or whoever. That's
what

>drew me to the setting, that's why it's the only TSR setting I run
(though

>I have a soft spot in my heart for Spelljammer, the red headed stepchild
of

>sci-fi games). People that don't see that bother me. It reminds me of
the

>interview with Gary Gygax, in Dragon mag, where he said roleplaying=20
and

>storytelling needs to be ignored, and action should rule (paraphrased).=20

>That hurts. And if that's the general consensus of the gamers out
there,

>then that may be why BR didn't do so well. But I hope not.

I agree with you that if you remove the domain turns and the ability to
play a ruler then BR would become just like ever other campaign world
except for the fact that it is extremely well though
out. This is the second main reason I also will only play in a BR
campaign, I like the fact the cultures seem to make sense. One of the
things that really bothered me about FR is that its cultures didn't seem
to make sense. You a European style culture in the centre, anciant egypt
in the south, more europe in the west with arabic in the south west but
then strange things like the land in the shing south (I forget which one)
which is likewise Euorpean in culture when none of its neighbours were.
The development of cultures was carried out in the hap haxard manner that
the campaign world was developed and I believe suffered for it. BR on the
other hand, has a well though out cultural development that sees things
like the Anuirean domains near the Khinasi being affected culturally by
its neighbourss ie Elinie or those near the Rjurik being likewise
affected by its neighbours, ie Dhoesone.

The other main advantage of BR is its a world where the fighter can
compete. FR is completely overrun with wizards, the only place of any
significance that is not ruler by wizards in FR is Cormyr and thats only
because the war wizards see fit to leave Azoun on the throne! In BR your
humble fighter can take advantage of the low magic nature of the world to
serve as some thing other than a wizards bodyguard/cannon fodder.

I am also horrified by the attitude that Gygax seems to typify. If you
are not interested in roleplaying and storytelling, why play D&D at all.
Those who are interested in just the action would be better served
playing a D&D style computer game were they can endlessly run through
pointless dungeons to kill their inhabitants and steal their treasure.


Craig