expirience awards

[AndrewTall]

Another improvement is that role-play awards can be used at all levels in consistent amounts without needing to be recalibrated each level, and minimal xp for dealing with petty threats is actively built into the system.

The lack of xp for 'non-kill' activity such as good ideas, heroism, playing in-character against a players better judgment, preparation of DM aides, etc (one of the few things I really liked about palladium games) seemed to be a curious omission from 3e to me.

[MatanThunder]

Hit dice had no play in the PC's awarding of xp in 2nd ed. All creatures had a set amount of xp and the awards were per spell level, per 5 gp, etc. The only thing I recall having to do with HD was the individual "kill awards".

With all due respect.....You are wrong here sir. I have played for 40 years and 2nd ed for 30ish of those. The experience awards were based on HIT DICE...then a HP bonus.....Then a bonus for lesser powers based on HIT DICE again....Then a bonus for greater powers based again on HIT DICE!

And those options, while commonly used (we used them), were actually an "optional" award system per the DMG. I'm not certain if there were "awards" listed for using magic items, there were for "creating" them though. And IIRC only the cleric/druids had a restriction on awards for casting spells (they had to be IAW their "ethos" or something like that.

Not optional for the base HIT DICE idea if that is your continued contention here!. Also the DMG listed experience awards were for SELLING the item only. You got that EXP for divesting yourself of the bling thing (magic item), and therefor some PC's were likely to sell magic items (especially at low level) in order to advance in levels faster....should the dice favor.....and the DM be generous!!

I had major issues with the entire system there because it rewarded individual play instead of "team work" - one of the best improvements made by 3.x.

Sorry to hear it.....I have the reverse opinion of yours it seems and really find the entire power tree systems of 3.?? to be........lacking in critical issues.

My entire post is not to be taken personally!!!

I am just posting that you may be wrong (I will find the page later if you still contend it isn't HD based), in the experience point award system for 2nd ed.

Later

[irdeggman]

With all due respect.....You are wrong here sir. I have played for 40 years and 2nd ed for 30ish of those. The experience awards were based on HIT DICE...then a HP bonus.....Then a bonus for lesser powers based on HIT DICE again....Then a bonus for greater powers based again on HIT DICE!

Yes and no. {Oh and I have been playing since I was seventeen and am now 49 so I am no newbie. I resent the assumption that I know nothing of 2nd ed. I started with 1st ed and then switched to 2nd ed when I joined a group running a Dark Sun campaign. We started BR about 2 months after it came out. We then switched to the Player's Option Series when that came out (Combat and tactics came out almost in parralel with the BR box set). We then played Alternity (in parallel with our D&D game, yet another game mechanic. We then switched to 3.0 (and 3.5) because it had a lot of really good ideas and new concepts that we found exciting.}

Pg 69 of the DMG Creature experience point table does indeed list xp value based on hit dice.

But each monser listed in the Monstrous Manual lists its own xp value to use instead of the base one for hit die. While these do include (for the most part) the hit die ratio - that is not necessarily always accurate.

Not optional for the base HIT DICE idea if that is your continued contention here!. Also the DMG listed experience awards were for SELLING the item only. You got that EXP for divesting yourself of the bling thing (magic item), and therefor some PC's were likely to sell magic items (especially at low level) in order to advance in levels faster....should the dice favor.....and the DM be generous!!

I was referring to the class awards - which you specifically mentioned.

DMG pg 70 Individual Experience Awards (Optional Rule) - which includes table 33 for common individual awards (which has 50-100 xp for clever ideas and not 1k to 5k. A 1k "great idea" award would almost level up a thief everytime.

These class based awards have per HD of creature defeated (for warriors (10 xp/ HD) and rogues (5 xp/HD)

Wizards
making a potion or scroll - xp value
Making permanent magical item - xp value

(Table 34 makes no mention of "selling" the magic item)

Priests:
Per successful use of granted power 100 xp
Spells cast to further ethos 100 xp/ spell level

Rogues
200 xp for successful use of special ability
2 xp/gp obtained as treasure
5 xp/hd of creatures defeated

Thieves were the "worst" offenders with this class award system.

Their xp advancement table was the easiest.

1,250 for 2nd level
2,500 for 3rd
160,000 for 10th
1,100,000 for 15th

compared to a fighter (paladins and rangers had a harder table)
2,000 for 2nd
4,000 for 3rd
500,000 for 10th
1,750,000 for 15th

My entire post is not to be taken personally!!!

Then please refrain from using large and/or bolded fonts, which commonly signify "YELLING", especially when they are specifically inserted and not the normal posting style used. It is a very upsetting habit to have.

[MatanThunder]

Yes....NOT NO!!

Page 47 DMG 2nd Ed....clearly states that HIT DICE are used in the resolving of experience......

Which you had contended in your post was not the case.

I had a feeling that you might not like someone mentioning that this is exactly how experience is deteremined....although I resorted to my house rules of using a 1st ed variation of the awards based on HD & HP. The DMG clearly states that HD & special powers determine the value of experience earned.

Page 48 goes on with an Optional rule about the experience earned and to the right of that is a Class Awards system that I hadn't read for years....thanks for setting me up for the refresher course.

Now drop the attitude please.......I was simply saying that you were wrong for saying, "Experience was not based on Hit Dice"......which page 47 clearly states it is.

I also know that each DM is an island unto themselves for rules selection, and that we all play it a little different.

Each to their own!!

Later



P.S. Nice to post to another ol' gamer.....I started in 1976 on the University of Fairbanks campus......in a 4th story dorm room facing the Denali Mountain range....EPIC!!

[Thelandrin]

For the record, Matan, I edited your post to remove the huge, overblown, unnecessary font choices you were making. Also, making comments like "drop the attitude" are not helpful and distinctly a double-edged sword, as they could easily be construed as an attitude of your own.

Play nice, people.

[irdeggman]

Yes....NOT NO!!

Page 47 DMG 2nd Ed....clearly states that HIT DICE are used in the resolving of experience......

Which you had contended in your post was not the case.

I had a feeling that you might not like someone mentioning that this is exactly how experience is deteremined....although I resorted to my house rules of using a 1st ed variation of the awards based on HD & HP. The DMG clearly states that HD & special powers determine the value of experience earned.

yes and of course still a no.

Your original post stated:

2nd Ed Grants full experience value by hit dice to those using class related powers, skills, melee abilities, spell casting, etc.... For use of magic items that mimic class powers related to the PC class the awards are also full.

Which pretty much states that the use of class abilities was awarded "based on hit dice".

I strayed somewhat on this one and lost my the point I was trying to make, which was that individual awards (like those for class based powers and abilities) were not tied to the character's hit dice. This is the implication of your post. I did provide the brief summary of how that portion worked. This can be real confusing for those who had never played 2nd ed since in the 3.x system the amount of xp awarded is dependent on the PC's hit dice (actually character level - which includes any non-hit dice type of LA applied).

So in 2nd ed a 15th level fighter defeating a plain orc received the same amount of xp as did a 1st level fighter. While the 15th level fighter would come no where near to advancing in level as would the 1st level fighter he still received the same award.

In 3.5 a 15th level fighter who defeats a plain (i.e., 1 HD orc warrior, CR 1/2) would receive 0 xp since it is not considered a challenge, while a 1st fighter would receive 150 xp (1st level character versus a CR 1/2 creature). The assumption here is for single combat, that is a party of 1 so division of xp.


So essentially a PC's level had relatively nothing to do with the xp he received as awards. It did, however, have a factor in how much xp he needed to advance (but the same is true in 3.5 with regards to xp for advancement) - and the tables were not linear nor could I ever determine what the mathematical basis was for them since they varied drastically as the character progressed in level and pretty much no two types had the same table. The wizard table was by far the strangest one. At low levels they were the most difficult to advance, then they became almost the easiest at mid-levels only to again become the hardest at higher levels

[cccpxepoj]

ADND 2nd edition, man, i can hardly remember it.
But it brings a nice memories back.

[irdeggman]

ccpxepoj,

How many of the actons accomplished were at the domain level?

In the adventuring/encounter front how many NPCs were involved? That is followers, body guards, cohorts, lieutenants, etc?

For domain level actions - there is really near the xp awards you might think available. The BRCS only has a "variant" for domain level awards and that is really small when compared to adventuring awards. (from 50 to 100 xp/PC levle per action). In 2nd ed only the PC game had an award system for domain actions - there were no "official" rules for it. Many people did, however, post their house-rules on the boards and some managed to "crack" the PC games system.

For a lot of NPCs. While the RAW has them not count (that is any associated with the Leadership feat) in the xp split - many people choose to have them count. Those that count them consider the fact that they "lessoned" the risk associated with the encounter, usually substantially and count them in the sahares given. I believe one of the most common variations is to have them count as 1/2 a PC. The BRCs (chap 8) has a variant that counts all cohorts and Lts as full PCs and body guards and followers as 1/2.

So there may be many reasons why the PCs' levels are relatively low.

Not having sufficient details of the game I couldn't offer a better rationalization than the above.

[cccpxepoj]

ccpxepoj,

How many of the actons accomplished were at the domain level?

In the adventuring/encounter front how many NPCs were involved? That is followers, body guards, cohorts, lieutenants, etc?

For domain level actions - there is really near the xp awards you might think available. The BRCS only has a "variant" for domain level awards and that is really small when compared to adventuring awards. (from 50 to 100 xp/PC levle per action). In 2nd ed only the PC game had an award system for domain actions - there were no "official" rules for it. Many people did, however, post their house-rules on the boards and some managed to "crack" the PC games system.

For a lot of NPCs. While the RAW has them not count (that is any associated with the Leadership feat) in the xp split - many people choose to have them count. Those that count them consider the fact that they "lessoned" the risk associated with the encounter, usually substantially and count them in the sahares given. I believe one of the most common variations is to have them count as 1/2 a PC. The BRCs (chap 8) has a variant that counts all cohorts and Lts as full PCs and body guards and followers as 1/2.

So there may be many reasons why the PCs' levels are relatively low.

Not having sufficient details of the game I couldn't offer a better rationalization than the above.

Every GM, different rules i have nothing against it, i just started this thread to see how people think about that topic, and to compare it to my opinion.
Thank you all.

[MatanThunder]

ADND 2nd edition, man, i can hardly remember it.
But it brings a nice memories back.

The price is right too for the entire set up...if you care to download it. $5 vs $30+ for 3.??

The system has its good and bad points, but with a number of reviews on Amazon, (and my own), for the 3.?? materials.....it seems that 3.?? isn't all that it is cracked up to be.

I have most of the 2nd ed stuff++, but at $5 per any type of release digitally I think that some more frugal gamers might just like it a little better than trying to find that NON FLUFF 3.?? material.

Later


Irreg...........