Aduria

[Hatzitaskos]

Can the serpent grant priest spells? I am not usre of that or if they are some kind of other
ability. The serpent has the reputation of a god, but i think it is just a reputation.
And i think the idea that the Gorgon might be able to grant spells is out of the question.
Why would he? Blooded characters are NOT even in the least gods. And remember,
regardless of the effect he has had on Anuire, the GOrgon is but a mere child to the Lost,
Azrai's true children and followers.

Kostis "Joran Aglondier" Hatzitaskos

[Hatzitaskos]

>Now there could be a blood power nobody knows of that allows the scion or
>abomination to give spell to priests who worship them. That is what I think is
>happening with the Serpent and maybe happening with the Gorgon..

Now, there COULD be such a power. BUt After all, the Gorgon has no delusions of
divinity, and he is not worshiped. The Hand of Azrai does not perform its rituals for the
GOrogn, but rather the Gorgon participates in its rituals which honour Azrai.
Churches can exist without active gods, or another god may be giving them the spells
they need. Look at the cases of Dark Sun and Forgotten Realms respectivelly.

Kostis "Joran Aglondier" Hatzitaskos

[Robert Ripley]

Hatzitaskos wrote:

> >Now there could be a blood power nobody knows of that allows the
> scion or
> >abomination to give spell to priests who worship them. That is what
> I think is
> >happening with the Serpent and maybe happening with the Gorgon..
>
> Now, there COULD be such a power. BUt After all, the Gorgon has no
> delusions of
> divinity,

why don't you ask him, I don't think the Gorgon would turn it down...

> and he is not worshiped. The Hand of Azrai does not perform its
> rituals for the
> GOrogn, but rather the Gorgon participates in its rituals which honour
> Azrai.

Gorgon honours no one. He is the master of the Crown and would very much
likemore.

> Churches can exist without active gods, or another god may be giving
> them the spells
> they need. Look at the cases of Dark Sun and Forgotten Realms
> respectivelly.
>
well this ain't Dark Sun or FR, but I do have to agree. How bout that
church of Vosgaardthat is not only un-owned but worships a culture...
wierd.
- --

Bob R.

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http://home.earthlink.net/~bobripley/index.html
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bobripley@earthlink.net
************************************************** *****************************

[Undertaker]

At 01:06 AM 5/16/97 +0200, Hatzitaskos(gandalf@ath.forthnet.gr)wrote:
>

>
>Churches can exist without active gods, or another god may be giving them
the >spells they need. Look at the cases of Dark Sun and Forgotten Realms
>respectivelly.
>

And don't forget the two major religions of Mystara are Philosophies, and
have nothing to do with Gods. It is possible that a person's faith may grant
them the ability to tap in to the universe and use its power, without any
divine assisstance. And I believe thats whats happening with the followers
of the Serpent.

Undertaker, richt@metrolink.net

"War is a matter of vital importance to the State;
the province of life or death;
the road to survival or ruin.
It is mandatory that it be thoroughly studied."
-Sun Tzu,(The Art of War)-

[Gandalf the White]

> I've been thinking. Has anybody here tried a campaign where the
>PC's are
>trying to bring back Azrai???
> You see some of the guys in my groop whant to make an Elf group
>that has
>that as it's primary goal! Yep! They want to bring back the bad guy! So I
>woundered if anybody has tried this, if so then how did it go??
>
>Any other comments are always welcome!

Actually..... no.
But in my campaign, my wizard wants to bring back a dead god too. He's
after Basaia. Well, my DM believes the bloodstone legend is not just a
legend, and it makes quite some sense too. Basaia though is the only god on
which it is plausible that this might happen. All the other's bloodstones
are scattered like hell.
If Azrai came back, or how he would... well, no idea yet, sorry. I'll hink
of sth and tell u.

[Grendel Todd]

On the Hand of Azrai (& related cults):

Three possible explinations -

1) The "Hand" could be refering to one of the Gods who replaced Azrai
(both were his champions in life), and as such the clergy may be
supported by said god to continue serving the cause of Darkness.

2) The "Hand" could be an Artifact (like the "Hand of Venica"). The
High Priestess of this Church (as I remember it) is unblooded, yet
still controls the temples. Perhaps this Artifact channels the faith
of the worshipers, acting as a 'regency battery' to allow her to
control the temples.

3) Perhaps the "Hand of Azrai" is a sham. The High Priestess simply
a priestess of one of the Vos Gods, while the actual holdings are held
by the Gorgon to raise money & keep other faiths out. The Priestess
acts as a lieutenant for the Gorgon and oversees the holdings for him.


"...when a prince has the goodwill of the people he must not worry
about conspiracies; but when the people are hostile and regard him
with hatered he must go in fear of everything & everyone..."

- Machiavelli, THE PRINCE


- ------------

Grendel Todd

[Gandalf]

>Who are the Lost, and where are they mentioned? I don't remember seeing
>them...
>Richard

The Lost are Azrai's true champions. I am not sure where they are
mentioned, but i do know they exist and they are official. You see, we are
running a campaign right now where we have to find them and stop some
devilish plot to take over Cerilia. So my DM is a bit reluctant to let me
in in info about them. But i will tell you as soon as i learn more. I think
the Raven is one of the Lost. My DM once told me he had found 2 that were
straightly called Lost, and another which was implied.

-

[Gandalf the White]

> I read in abominations of Cerilia( I think! ) about the Gorgon.
>In that story he claimes that HE choose not to become a GOD ( He was
>Azrai's 3
>champion, or so he says ! ) because he wanted basicly to rule all of Cerilia.
>If this is true, who knows, then others may also have choosen to remain. But
>these may still be able to give there followers cleric spells.
>
>It's just a tought.
>
>EAJ

Actually, the Gorgon could NOT become a god, because of his great hatred of
mankind. Wouldn't make sense to create a god that would destroy his
followers, eh? Anyway,he had all the qualifications and he WAS Azrai's
champion, though not yet one of the Lost. He was close enough to the blast
to become a god, but he just couldn't become one.

-

[Gandalf]

>Yes, maybe the Gorgon honour no Man, and is a worshiper of Azrai. But I
>don't now why he remember me that typical guy that serve his lord blindly
>but when only they two are yet living and his lord says to him: "Well, we
>have no more enemyes", he answers: "I have another one...".
>Nadastor, Wizard of the Black Robes

Yes, perhaps. But it never got to that. The gorgon wanted the throne and
the destruction of humankind. If Azrai gave him that, i still think he
would be content to rule as a tyrant over Cerilia. But even if he didn't,
the whole thing didn't go that far. Azrai just died, and the Gorgon still
wants him back, to help him strike at his enemies.
I rather see the Gorgon as this most-powerful guy that though he sees far,
he just doesn't see far enough.
As Gandalf said about Sauron, "a wise fool..."

-

[Gandalf]

>uh... -News Flash- Azrai's dead... just thought you might want to
>know.. I don't think Gorgy would worship something immaterial like the
>dead and gone Azrai.

Yeah, well. read my postings. First off, gorgy ain't as smart as everybody
thinks he is: he's a short-sighted fool. And fools like him are known to
worship dead things. Has happened repeatedly in other AD&D worlds. Why not
here?
Also, Basaia's still worshipped in Djapar (the original Basarji homeland).
Why not Azrai?
Also, dead gods may be backed up by living ones... even if they are not
worshiped directly and just give spells to some idiot that thinks their
god's alive, gods still get power.
Cyric did that with Bane's Clerics. Why shouldn't one of the evil gods do
so with the Hand of Azrai? And how do you explain the fact that the Gorgon
is the head of the church of Azrai? Is it just his favorite hobby? To
pretend to worship gods he thinks are dead. Let's face it. The gorgon's old
and mad with delusions of grandeur he will never have. And he still
believes Azrai is somewhere there and might come back to aid him.

-