Page 4 of 6 FirstFirst 123456 LastLast
Results 31 to 40 of 53
  1. #31
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    439
    Downloads
    31
    Uploads
    0
    Surely it would be difficult, but you've got to give the elves at least as much credit for intelligence and preparation and farsightedness as the Gorgon. I'd say more. They may not be as shrewd on the battlefield as the Gorgon, but they know how to defend their homelands.

    Standard game stats do elves a disservice on levels and defensive preparations. Still, working within them, Isaelie is 13th level and could have a bunch of extra scrolls prepared for the eventuality of the Gorgon's attack. Remember, also, that regents--especially elven regents--aren't necessary or even likely to be the highest level characters in their realms.

    Remember that the Gorgon attacking an elven forest can lose many of his troops to Warding and fortifications, and Summon Monstrous Army from an 11th level spellcaster could rip a deep, deep hole in his armies (Isaelie can summon 4 of the most powerful units for 4 months; these units are powerful enough to probably destroy 10+ skeleton units, or many, many more goblins). His own archers and cavalry are all but useless; all elven troops in their thick forest ride around with impunity harrying him until he can trap one of them.

    Consider that the elven forest itself is described as rising up against invaders. Treants and Forest Giants, centaurs, satyrs, dryads, pixies, sprites, dangerous plants, etc. 30 units would not be enough to seriously threaten a Sielwode realm, even with the Gorgon at the helm.

    As for the gaze attack, rare would be the elf that would get within 30 feet of the Gorgon. Remember, they attack mainly at range, and all of those spells I mentioned are good ranged spells.

    Human realms are much, much easier prey for the Gorgon. I'd be more worried about Elinie and Mhoried. Though they might be able to get wizards from the College of Sorcery, the TBM, Sword Mage, or High Mage Aelies involved, all powerful enough to work magic similar.

    You're right, though, in that the Gorgon knows these threats, and knows he still isn't powerful enough to spearhead the charge himself until he conquers all. That helps explain why he works behind the scenes and takes land slowly.
    Last edited by Rowan; 12-12-2007 at 05:50 PM.

  2. #32
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Malden, MA
    Posts
    761
    Downloads
    2
    Uploads
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by ConjurerDragon View Post
    The novel "Greatheart"
    For some reason, you seem to be bringing that up a lot lately, though my impression may be mistaken. Personally, I think most of its interpretations of Sidhelien culture are way off base. I think "Greatheart says X" is a better argument against X than for it. I don't consider it, or any of the novels, to be canon any more than is the fan fiction we write around here. Actually, I think they probably should be considered *less* canonical than what we write, since I'm quite sure people who've been on this list a while know a hell of a lot more about Cerilia than Simon Hawke, Dixie Lee McKeone and John Betancourt did when they got their writers' guidelines from TSR. At the very least, it's certainly no more authoritative than the in-character text from the Atlas of Cerilia, which many of us have long considered to be frequently mistaken or intentionally misleading in some of its details.

    In any case, I am quite sure the Gorgon does fear the elves, especially Rhuobhe Manslayer. IMO, he never directly bothers the elves because he knows they will obliterate him if he tries, but they don't attack him because he so obligingly slaughters humans for them.

  3. #33
    Senior Member Lawgiver's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Murray, KY
    Posts
    1,054
    Downloads
    9
    Uploads
    0
    Possible ideas:
    1. Seizing the Iron Throne is not possible by force and he knows it. Either through some strong magic or power of the bloodlines themselves. Based on the “Iron Throne” novel, he was unable to draw Michael Roele’s bloodline as he grounded it before it was stolen. He is still trying to discover “how” to recover Michael’s bloodline. He has repeatedly returned to the site of his death and all attempts have failed. My personal plotline from a campaign was that Michael didn’t throw his essence into the ground as the Gorgon thought, but rather it went into the hilt of the broken Sword of Roele which was on the ground at the same point. The sword contains the “spirit” of the Roele bloodline but cannot be unlocked without the restoration of the sword. The Chamberlain maintains the hilt in a hidden location. The blade portion was recovered by the Gorgon and kept as a haunting reminder of his failure. A fake version of the sword was laid to rest in the tomb of Roele so that the pre-made TSR adventure is still playable. However, the PCs must recover the blade at some point during the campaign. There was an NPC in the campaign that was an heir, but the back story is a separate issue for now.

    2. The Gorgon has been tasked by Azrai to restore one of his most trusted minions. At the height of the Battle of Diesmaar Azrai manifested himself to lead hordes. The resulting devastation caused by the destruction of Azrai’s avatar is well known throughout Cerilia. During the aftermath of the Azrai’s defeat not all of Azrai’s forces were destroyed. One in particular survived the blast--Beelzebub. Beelzebub was the strongest and one of the deadliest of Azrai’s demons. Having slain Azrai the remaining forces of good sought to slay Beelzebub. Their efforts were not initially successful. A human priest, whose name is lost to time, aided in his eventual defeat. To prevent the loosing of Beelzebub from his banishment to another plane, the essences of his “body” was divided and placed into various worldly objects. These objects were scattered about the face of Anuire and Cerilia to prevent anyone from uniting them and resurrecting the foul demon. The whereabouts and nature of the items were hidden from all knowledge. No one has sought the parts of the beast for centuries. Their existence was all but forgotten, until now… Welcome to a new campaign.


    3. The Gorgon possesses an unknown weakness which he fears will be exploited if he moves forward. He seeks to remove this Achilles heal before he can begin his attack.

    4. He is slowly turning to stone and like a dragon can only be active for so long before entering a low-level hibernation state. During which time his trusted minions maintain order and is one reason they must be replaced periodically to avoid rumors of weakness.

    5. He can in fact conquer the land, but knows that he cannot maintain order and does not wish to deal with multiple rebellions. He is still planting agents to take care of this for him.

    6. He is waiting for humanity to tear itself apart to a point of weakness in which they cannot stand up to him.

    7. He is less evil than meant to be and fights a mental battle like Vader to redeem himself or “fulfill his destiny”. (weakest idea)
    Servant of the Most High,
    Lawgiver

    Isaiah 1:17
    Learn to do good; Seek justice, Rebuke the oppressor; Defend the fatherless, Plead for the widow.

  4. #34

    Lightbulb Hm...

    The Gorgon has only a handful of awnsheghlien. The Gorgon easily wins, but cannot be everywhere so a load of re-conquest takes place.

    The Gorgon has more in mind than a greedy brute on conquest, as the blood of Azrai speaks of more than mundane tasks and he is a wizard, additionally?

    The Gorgon didn`t win, as their is no schedule and the Shadowworld works on abstract or chaotic rules.

    Throwing armies against each other, did you always have so low esteem for thousands of lives? Even goblins or elves may prefer to survive and fight later, or were the dwarves simply drunk again?

    Last but not least... the Gorgon didn't win because the officials hadn't yet learned to adapt the book of vile darkness, illithid mind-flayers and my Muggdosh deity. WHAT ELSE COULD EXPLAIN IT MORE PROPERLY

  5. #35
    Senior Member The Swordgaunt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Bergen, Norway
    Posts
    152
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0
    My take on Gorgy, and why he hasn't won yet, is as follows.

    While the greatest tactician on the face of Aebrynis, he is short on troops. Thus he is forced to play the Anuirean game of thrones - pitting one against the other, and creating lasting enmity and old grudges so that his opponents will not ally too soon.

    The elves, while not on his path to the Iron Throne, they must not be allowed to rally and strike his flank. They are old and cunning, so they are not easily taken. Although Gorgy has troops enough to burn the forest (especially if he takes the field), doing so will send a message - "He is coming!" - that will damage the grand plan if done too quick. The Anuireans might get their heads out of their back-sides...

    He is one of the most formidable characters alive. Any hero who opposes him must be exceptional. I have used a Champion of Haelyn with Long Life as the most important (not lead-, mind you) protagonist in my campaigns. Haelyn actually speaks through the Lord Protector (a Paladin). Without their own epic, anyone who faces him in battle will loose, period.

    He is old. Old characters plan differently than young ones. Besides, he is pretty clever. Combined this makes for long plots, not "by the first snow-fall" kind of planning. So what if he has to wait five hundred years before his plans can bear fruits?

    Waging two-front wars is a bad plan. He will know this, and thus he will focus on destroying his enemies piece-meal. To be able to accomplish this without giving his enemies cause to ally, while simultaneously avoid that his vanquished foe has time to rebuild, takes planning and a lot of cloak and dagger.

    In short, my Gorgon has spent the years since Michael laying the ground-work and placing pieces on the board. Now the game is about to begin for real.
    -Harald

    Today, we were kidnapped by hill folk never to be seen again. It was the best day ever.

    Blog

  6. #36
    Administrator Green Knight's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Norway
    Posts
    1,018
    Downloads
    20
    Uploads
    0
    Here is my take:

    The Gorgon does not have the strength to take the Iron Throne.

    1. He is not personally powerful enough to beat all opponents. If his stats make him that powerful, then that is IMO clearly a mistake. I'm all for him being the most powerful fighter around - by far - able to beat a group of skilled opponents ...but anything that makes him able to wade through hordes of 10+ lvl enemies is too DnD and not very good storytelling...

    2. He has a big but shitty realm. Its filled with lousy provinces. He's going to have money and logistical issues when fielding a major army. He has a pretty special army...one that is not exactly filled with loyal troops...as likely to attack each other as their enemies. If Anuire really came under attack, they could field a vastly superior army in terms of size AND quality.

    3. The Gorogn has leadership issues. Bad as he might be he's only one man. Does he stay at home to coordinate things and keep an eye on things? Most likely. Even if he did get out, he could only be in one place at a time. And good help is hard to find...especially for villains.

    That said I'd like to have a more detailed history of the Gorgon's interaction with Anuire. When did he set up shop in the Crown? When was he first considered a major threat? Was any of his campaigns especially successful or not so successful? When did people start scaring their children by mentioning his name? What about his agent networks - when did he start using subterfuge? That sort of thing. Sound a bit lame for him to have sat 1500 years in the Crown - about as powerful as today - razing Mhoried or some such every generation or so.
    Cheers
    Bjørn
    DM of Ruins of Empire II PbeM

  7. #37
    Administrator Green Knight's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Norway
    Posts
    1,018
    Downloads
    20
    Uploads
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Osprey View Post
    While normally I favor story/flavour over mechanics, the 3.x mechanics of the Gorgon scream of his personal dominance over anyone or anything he might meet, short of some DM fiat such as Mark Aurel described (the Gorgon loses all his really mighty powers and magic beyond his domain).

    The united Elven/Anuirean forces would only be a real threat if they had enough heroic champions who would be willing to fight together. But would Rhuobhe and Co. ever side with the humans, for any reasons? I highly doubt it.

    Mechaniocally, the big question is: just how many high-level heroes can the Anuireans, elves, and dwarves muster? Personally, I believe the elves would have quite a few tough, high-to-epic level champions and heros - enough to make the Gorgon consider them a real threat. Anuireans, on the other hand, just don't have the expertise if one is to believe Ruins of Empire, which is what the first post in this thread really pointed out - that the Gorgon could stomp out the champions, leaders, and regents of Anuire without much issue, and having them united on the battlefield might in some ways just save him a lot of trouble, as he could get them all in short order and have all of their armies crumble without their lords and champions.

    One thing I've decided for my own campaign is this: regardless of whatever powers he might possess, Teleport is right out. Once you let the Gorgon teleport, he is free to assassinate nearly any regent he wants at a whim - ensuring that none of them would ever become to strong. Only magically shielded realms, such as the elven forests, would be any proof against this. So I decided my Gorgon will be a sorcerer, not a wizard, as thematically better fits a warrior personality (intuitive magic). Even better, make him a low to mid-level sorcerer and Teleport isn't even an issue. Besides it makes room for actual Awnshegh monster levels along with Fighter levels, something completely missed in the BRCS version.

    Osprey
    Then the Gorgon is clearly too powerful. He only needs to be strong enough to prevent the players or any determined group of NPC from killing him. There is no need to make a Cerilian Elminster.

    And as you say...teleport is about the silliest spell there is...
    Cheers
    Bjørn
    DM of Ruins of Empire II PbeM

  8. #38
    Special Guest (Donor)
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Zagreb, Croatia
    Posts
    417
    Downloads
    25
    Uploads
    0
    Well, maybe no one has considered a rather simple reason. The Gorgon likes to play, who cares about the Cerilia. Go out and have some fun, burn a village, kill a unit, subdue a domain, reap some blood. If you kill them all and conquer, where's the joy? He'd die out of boredom alone, not spell nor sword. Clever guy like him, with all the time in the world, where's the rush?
    Rey M. - court wizard of Tuarhievel

  9. #39
    Administrator Green Knight's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Norway
    Posts
    1,018
    Downloads
    20
    Uploads
    0
    Or meybe he's grown old and stony...both in body and mind. All he can manage these days is sitting on his throne and (barely) run his kingdom? Only with great effort can he mobilize to do anything besides that.
    Cheers
    Bjørn
    DM of Ruins of Empire II PbeM

  10. #40
    Special Guest (Donor)
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Zagreb, Croatia
    Posts
    417
    Downloads
    25
    Uploads
    0
    Well, he used to be young, too.
    Rey M. - court wizard of Tuarhievel

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
BIRTHRIGHT, DUNGEONS & DRAGONS, D&D, the BIRTHRIGHT logo, and the D&D logo are trademarks owned by Wizards of the Coast, Inc., a subsidiary of Hasbro, Inc., and are used by permission. ©2002-2010 Wizards of the Coast, Inc.