Will you be moving to 4th Edition D&D?

[fbaker4]

Actually, that's my point, and I'm happy to claim it. As long as all one is concerned with only story, any mechanic works, including Car Wars.\

lol. You're a Tiger...I want to play a birthright game when you GM using Car Wars rules! Bootlegger Reverse! Spear 1000 Napalm Mines! Improved Body Armor! Take that, Manslayer!

[kgauck]

More developed BR conversions that I have done include Kingmaker (I had to buy a copy on e-Bay), Illuminati, Machiavelli, and Monopoly.

When I tried Machiavelli in Anuire, I also realized Risk could be played on a BR map too.

I have started a BR mod for the computer game EUIII, but I'm spending too much time on the wiki to advance that project at present.

Diplomacy and Machiavelli are already established PBeM games, so setting up one of those with a map of Anuire would be pretty easy.

I think combining Machiavelli and Kingmaker in some region of Cerilia would be fun.

[fbaker4]

I have started a BR mod for the computer game EUIII, but I'm spending too much time on the wiki to advance that project at present.

Diplomacy and Machiavelli are already established PBeM games, so setting up one of those with a map of Anuire would be pretty easy.

I think combining Machiavelli and Kingmaker in some region of Cerilia would be fun.
]

Hey - those are good ideas; I'm a big Paradox guy myself, and if you like EUIII, have you tried Crusader Kings? Hold the phone, it's stunning. I put in my application a few months back with the Paradox development team to get the source code for CK & EUII - one of the things I want to do with it is have a BR version of CK. Maybe we can compare notes? And if you liked those, did you ever try the old Sierra-On-Line version of Birthright? It had some great elements, though the AI was pathetic.

[kgauck]

Wow, the source code! I was just making a map of Cerilia with Japar and Anduria rounding out the world (I wanted a full world, little colonization) with plans to change the tags and modifiers for religion.

I've enjoyed Paradox games since the original EU and Hearts of Iron (which I bought unaware that it was Paradox). Since then I've gotten all those varieties and play EU with Magna Mundi. Since then I've added Victoria and Rome, and the very early version of the Engine based on the Hundred Years War, but never got Crusader Kings.

So far I have a partially developed territorial map. If the maps are the same size, that would be useful.

[fbaker4]

Dude, have all 4 paradox mainstays; and if you like HoI (I just finished a mammoth HoI2DD game I started in May), I can't express enough how much you need CK. I - ... I - ... I really, really, mean it.

ANyway, back on topic.

4e is way more betterer! An' my dragonborn warlok scion of Andu is gonna eldrich your cheezy Law Holding (2) till it crumbles...just as soon as I kik the Spider's butt.

[Rowan]

Wow, there's a lot of experience on these boards! A good bit of overlap, but also a good amount of diversity.

Unfortunately my time is more limited than in my hs and college days, so I fear I can't take a look at all these systems you guys recommend.

What I find, though, is that a lot of ideas from other systems can be adapted across systems. In any case, you can usually learn from other systems.

I have been working on a BR conversion for a while now, with a few goals in mind:
1. Improving the simulationist aspect;
2. Streamlining gameplay, particularly for PBEMs;
3. Scalability (traditional domain level to intra-domain, or up to faction and nation level--so 3-5 players could easily play out the drama of Anuire, or the five tribal regions could be played); and
4. World-building and world-running mechanics adaptable to any D&D setting as a DM aid.

It'll be 4e compatible and take some cues from that, but I'm not focusing much on the adventure level, so 3.5e v. 4e won't matter that much. I'm getting close to having a reviewable outline of the mechanics (without much flavor explanation, yet). I'd like to benefit from your collective experience and critique, however, so I'll put it up when I have it ready.

Aside from that, though, from what I've hearing, some of the best systems you guys have put forward are:
1. James Bond RPG
2. Earthdawn (for magic)
3. Paradox
4. Machiavelli

I don't have experience with any of those. The Areas of Knowledge are a case of convergent evolution--I was recently applying a similar concept as an extension of the Character Backgrounds mentioned on another thread here. It's helpful to hear about how they worked in the Bond system. Any other winning ideas worthy of brief explanation from these systems?

As for systems we'd like to promote the most, I'll plug Eden Studios' Witchcraft & Armageddon (the Unisystem), since no one else here seems to have seen it yet. My brother loves Engle (a German product).

[Vicente]

Question for all who would like to answer: How many of you have played other RPG systems, and what were they?

I have mostly played DnD (2e, 3e and now 4e), Alternity, MERP, Rolemaster, CoC and Paranoia. But I have also played from time to time (as a break from those games): Kult, Trail of Cthulhu, Shadowrun (2e-3e), Mechwarrior (2e-3e), Star Wars (WEG and d20), d20 Modern, Talislanta, Warhammer Fantasy RPG, Reign, Stormbringer, James Bond, Superheroes Inc, Ert, EXO and Fanhunter (the last 3 are Spanish RPGs).

Never played WW stuff (I tried Vampire one, but I didn't like it). As for rulesets, probably the one I like the most is the one from Alternity, a pitty the game died so fast (although AlternityRPG.net goes on

Regards,

Vicente

P.D.: as for systems Rowan, Paradox is a software company It makes very complex historical real time strategy games (they got famous with Europa Universalis and after that they have done remakes of the same idea in different ages changing and improving mechanics here and there).

They aimed for a niche marked and they did it pretty well, but it would be really hard to translate such complex games to book/tabletop (although they are a great source of ideas).

[Lee]

In a message dated 8/19/2008 10:28:40 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
brnetboard@BIRTHRIGHT.NET writes:

Rowan wrote:
Question for all who would like to answer: How many of you have played other
RPG systems, and what were they?


Twilight:2000 (1st and 2nd ed.), Star Trek RPG (FASA, 1st & 2nd ed.), Star
Wars (WEG/d6, 2nd ed.), Space:1889, Traveller, MegaTraveller, Rolemaster,
Elric, Top Secret (not S.I.), Recon, Star Frontiers, Serenity RPG, GURPS 3rd ed.
Probably a few more, but my crew are mostly D&D fans, and I`m more of a
wargamer than an RPGer. I`ve done Basic, Advanced 1e, 2e, 3.0 and 3.5 D&D.
Result? Lately, I`ve been feeling nostalgic for 1st/2d ed. AD&D, with
maybe some 3.5 mechanics house-ruled in. One of my friends was a 4e
playtester, and he`s not at all eager to switch over. We`re all "older" gamers, with
kids and thus rather limited gaming time.

Lee.



**************It`s only a deal if it`s where you want to go. Find your travel
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[RCB]

Hello all. New to these forums. I figured I would throw in on this subject.

I have played 2nd D&D (as well as the basic D&D they offered as well, more or less same stuff) and 3rd (3.5), Palladiums Systems (Rifts, Heroes Unlimited, Nightbane, etc...), Twilight 2000, WW, Gurps (actually the first system I ever played), Mechwarrior, Carwars (can't remember what the RPG side of it was called), Villains and Vigilantes, Tunnels and Trolls (which I really liked), Runequest (also a big fan of), Star Wars (WEG and D20, the D6 by the way is fantastic and still one of my favorites especially for modern and sci-fi... class based systems suck when you get into those genres), Alternity, Call of Cthulu, Gamma World, Amber and a few others to be sure, but can't really remember names. (been gaming for about 19 years, since I was 13... to show my age)

As far as wargames... way too many. Battletech, Warhammer, 40k, Pretty much all the Games Workshop stuff, Warzone (fantastic system, too bad it disappeared), Newer Mechwarrior, Carwars, etc...

I don't think I will move onto 4th. I don't like the online games forcing class roles. It robs too much from RP and turns the game into even more number crunching. Personally I think I and my group will be moving more the other direction. Less class roles where there is more flexibility. If I wanted to play and MMO then I would. I know I can house rule plenty of things, but for that matter, I can keep using what there already is. There are some other aspects that I don't care for from a fantasy world ecological view, such as mindless undead not being "evil" or rather not beings of malevolence. It just doesn't fit with the ethos of the world I want to play in typically.

[AndrewTall]

Aside from that, though, from what I've hearing, some of the best systems you guys have put forward are:
1. James Bond RPG
2. Earthdawn (for magic)
3. Paradox
4. Machiavelli

The earthdawn magic system at first glance looks vancian - there are no spell points, there are lots of 'spells' many of which will be familiar to veteran gamers by different names - all the basics are covered. However PC's don't have spell slots, with game balance coming from the nuber of spell slots your character has. Instead spells have a set number of 'threads'. The more powerful the spell, the larger the number of threads and the difficulty to weave them. (PC's have a skill called 'thread-weaving' that you improve as you go up levels).

So a mage could cast a low power spell every round, or spend several rounds winding up to the big hit, etc - different spellcaster types have different spells available and at low level it mostly works fine.

A spell caster can keep a certain number of spells to hand in a 'spell matrix' - other spells can be known but only these can be cast safely, to dump the old spell and put a new spell in the matrix generally needs a cut scene but can be done on the fly albeit at some risk. This encourages planning (particularly as some spells are very hard to stick in a matrix) but allows some flexibility.

The system has the usual bugs with spells at the wrong level, etc - but it is easy to customise around the basic concept.

Another aspect is 'blood magic' - the wearer of a given item can boost various abilities by a set amount, but takes damage for doing so - it gives non spell-casters some magic, but is inherently limited, basically 'you can get +6 steps to damage, but you will take 3 damage to do so - good luck hitting'. Blood magic is somewhat hazardous if a PC overdoes it, similar to radiation boosts in other systems.

The 'real' magic items are mostly designed to grow with the character, when you first get an item you can only access the most basic functionality, as you recreate its heroic legend / otherwise unlock it - generally at a cost of time, xp and possibly health - more and more functions of the item are unlocked or existing powers get stronger. This is over-done a little but is basically designed to give DM's plot hooks and the like'.


The skill system is also fairly nice, you have certain class skills, and can also get non-combat style skills, you 'buy' skill levels with xp gained from adventuring, with higher levels costing an increasing amount - so you can be very good at 1 or 2 skills, or have basic familiarity with many.

Overall it's quite a nice system, second to D&D in my heart - but a fond second.