Ideas, Need Comments

[Birthright-L]

Greetings... I am trying to put together, in a way, a cosmology of the Outer
and Inner Planes in relation to Aebrynnis, the Material. I have the
Elemental, Transitive, and Energy Planes, plus have added the Abyss and the
Nine Hells to the grouping (the last two, because every cosmology should
have the demons and devils about to cause trouble).

However, the planes of the deities are a bit more troublesome... Kriesha is
relatively simple, give her a plane where winter is year-round, sort of a
cross between the plane of the demon lord Kotchtchie (sp?) and Fury`s Heart
from the FR cosmology.

I created a plane for Laerme, which has features of the Brightwater plane
for FR, and a direct link to the Elemental Plane of Fire... Of course, in my
idea of a cosmology, every world interconnects in some way, so her plane,
which I named Heartfire, actually connects to Brightwater, so she can wander
in to that pool, and swap stories with the other deities of love...

Currently, I was considering Cuiraecen`s... Now, for him, I was trying to
figure a good outlook. The 2E Para-Elemental Plane of Lightning is of
interest, for sure, but... I needed something else... So I went looking at
other places, things, etc. For storms, Talos is the FR deity, but it is
really on the side of not going there... Tempus is deity of battle, yet he`s
a bit troublesome at times... Anhur, the Mulhorandi deity of battle, with a
touch of storms, seemed the best fit in comparison...

But then I got ahold of something else... Deities and Demigods. Now, there
happens to be a deity in there that fits really well... Problem is, I don`t
want to give Cuiraecen a weapon with HALF the power of that deity`s... The
deity in question is Thor. And quite frankly Mjollnir is so powerful in my
view, it could probably outdo anything wielded by most chief deities! But
the concept of a Valhalla... That seemed to fit Cuiraecen well... Add a bit
of lightning to the air, and you might get something that felt really
comfortable...

Problem is that I have run into one small problem with these deities and the
rest of the BR deities... How to deal with certain of the deceased. Humans
are no trouble at all... It`s those half-elves that worship the human gods
that are troublesome... Do their souls keep their half-elven form after
death? How does one reward those that have gone above and beyond any others?
The ones deserving of forms higher than petitioners?

Now, by far, my favorite race in 2E were the half-elves. The fact that 3E
rules now show that they could advance forever doesn`t hurt my estimation
any... though I now have cambions, half-celestials, half-dragons, and
half-elementals which strike me as cool... But I wondered what would be good
blessings or punishments for serving the deities of BR...

For Kriesha... Well, I was a bit torn... As an evil deity, the faithful that
did not do anything too extraordinary, probably are being tormented forever
(though I do like the FR method of on the plain waiting for your deity to
claim you, the devils coming by and asking those waiting if they want to
become devils... and the faithful of the evil deities, expecting pain for
the rest of time accepting)... But how about those that did extremely well
for her? Those that proved themselves by causing cold spells to destroy
crops, slaying the good, etc.? Well... perhaps they did get a reward of
sorts... Perhaps they became ice para-elementals, or something like that...
That would be a general thing.

Laerme, on the other hand... well, her domain would probably put the worst
Roman orgy to shame... A pleasure palace? Please... That`s putting her
domain down. The human faithful... would probably become some form of
chaotic, love-making celestial, if they did well enough.

Half-elves... well, I had an idea there... I don`t know if it is all that
great, but... it seemed good when I thought it up... On the Elemental Plane
of Fire there are creatures called azer, dwarves native to the Elemental
Plane of Fire... So what if there were also elves native to that plane?
Well, I thought that Laerme might bless those half-elves who did her work
above and beyond all call for it, by making them into such creatures. I gave
them the name, Amael, which I found somewhere as Elven for Beloved... And,
in very special cases, Laerme might send one to accomplish some deed or
other on Aebrynnis. Based on her portfolio... It might be in response to
pleas for someone to love them, or the like... But it was an idea...

As I now have begun working on Cuiraecen... I am a bit troubled as to what
to make the really worthy faithful that end up on his plane... The warriors
waiting in Valhalla are good and all... but there isn`t an actual half-elf
form for those... So I am a bit... torn... I have been thinking of making
creatures based on the lightning para-elemental monster from 2E... But don`t
know if that would be all that wise...

Anyway, sorry for going on and on and on... But I wanted some input, etc.

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[Keovar]

One important thing to note about the cosmology of Aebrynnis is that NOTHING can get into the Prime Material part of the world without first passing through the Shadow World that envelops it. The Cold Rider, suspected by many to be the ghost of Azrai, rules that plane now, and it is difficult for anyone of great power to pass through his domain unnoticed by him. This is why Aebrynnis isn't invaded by planar travelers. Most plane-travelling characters are mages and priests, both of which would find themselves with very little power left if they were to get into the Shadow World. The divine spellcasters would find that the strange nature of the plane would keep them from the blessings of their foreign deities, and the mages would find themselves reduced to using only lesser magics. If it's a risky journey for a native Cerilian to enter the Shadow World, imagine the danger a planar visitor would be in!

[Birthright-L]

Keovar wrote:
This is why Aebrynnis isn`t invaded by planar travelers. Most
plane-travelling characters are mages and priests, both of which would find
themselves with very little power left if they were to get into the Shadow
World. The divine spellcasters would find that the strange nature of the
plane would keep them from the blessings of their foreign deities, and the
mages would find themselves reduced to using only lesser magics. If it`s a
risky journey for a native Cerilian to enter the Shadow World, imagine the
danger a planar visitor would be in!
-------
True enough, most times... Problem is there are reports of planar creatures
getting to Aebrynnis... For instance the iron golem orog awnsheghlien (I
forget his name right now, begins with a G...), got his new form and powers
because he freed a baatezu trapped there... Now, that means that said
baatezu (devil) had to have gotten to Aebrynnis somehow...

Also... Many of my campaigns, adventures, etc. have included a minor little
problem called planar rips, or something akin to them... i.e. A person will
be walking along somewhere, and through some unknown process act, he
suddenly (and violently) ends up on some other world/plane or whatever...
And that`s not even counting the times when someone activates a portal
wrong, uses a scroll above their level and gets sent elsewhere by a miscue,
or the retributive strike function of certain staffs sends them elsewhere...

And then there`s that nasty Deismaar event, which sent some NPC`s
everywhere... The past, the future, the Outer Planes, the Realms, et al...
And since I have (in many campaigns) had this penchant for Godswars... Well,
such events happen a bit more often than they should...

Oh... And don`t force me to tell you what I had Laerme do to the humans of
Aebrynnis... Let`s just say if there were no wars the population might be a
bit... high.

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[Birthright-L]

Oh... And another of the reasons I`m asking... is one of my fellow players
got allowed to make a character for BR using the half-fire elemental
template... And now wants an explanation as to how that came about... And
how other half-elementals can come about... As well as other half-planars...
Really troublesome, sometimes... When the DM looks to you to explain some of
the things he put in a campaign...

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[kgauck]

----- Original Message -----
From: "William Bolitho" <wrb41977@HOTMAIL.COM>
Sent: Saturday, November 02, 2002 4:36 PM


> True enough, most times... Problem is there are reports of planar
> creatures getting to Aebrynnis... Now, that means that said
> baatezu (devil) had to have gotten to Aebrynnis somehow...

Where I ever to use devils and demons, they come from the Shadow World.

Kenneth Gauck
kgauck@mchsi.com

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[kgauck]

Readers of the new 3E Deities and Demigods will notice that each chapter
covering a major pantheon starts with a cosmology, and that there is no
attempt to connect the Pharaonic pantheon with any others in the book.
Likewise with the Greek and Norse cosmologies. They stand alone. There is,
mostly in other materials, discussion of how to connect these worlds. But,
its not an integral part of a cosmology that it can be connected to others.
That`s why they are presented as isolated and free standing. Its a good
thing that both connected and unconnected universes can be imagined. Some
groups will want BR to stand alone and remain permanently free of Elminster,
Thor, and Athena. Others will want to have the possibility of strange
visitors and opportunities to visit other planes.

Were I to devise a cosmological scheme in pictorial form like the ones in
the Deities and Demigods, I`d start with the Material plane. But where many
of the other diagrams show the Ethereal plane overlapping with the material,
I`d show the Shadow World, a twisted mirror image with point to point
contact. Above is the celestial region, which we might name after the Greek
word for star, "astron". It would be in this Astral plane that the heavens
would reside. Hence astrologers would be gazing up at the Astral plane for
insight into the future, the will of the gods, and fate. Up here we have
the palaces of Ruornil and Avani, built by Anduiras for his wife Basaïa and
for his brother Vorynn. These palaces are the sun and the moon. Proper and
obvious astrological phenomena to oberserve. Haelyn is identified by a
constellation, is a sky god, has air powers, and no doubt resides in a part
of the heavens where his constellation is. Nesirie dwells in the sea,
possessing a palace in that domain. Cuiraécen has a cloud palace. Erik has
a domain that touches every forest and is within the earth. Sera occupies
Brenna`s old place in the earth from which she could observe all the riches
of the earth. And so forth and so on.

What else do we need? Nothing really. The idea of the four elements is
strong in BR, and so its possible to imagine the traditional elemental
planes, but where to put them? You could put the elemental plane of fire
in, behind, or through the sun. The depthless ocean could just become the
elemental plane of water. Earth`s elemental plane could just be below the
surface, perhaps hundred of miles. Perhaps the elemental plane of air is
just up, perhaps between the clouds and the celestial sphere that is the
Astral plane. But they strictly aren`t necessary either.

Kenneth Gauck
kgauck@mchsi.com

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[Talaran]

In regards to the character being a half-elemental, remember that the old gods were forces of nature, some of which having strong ties to certain elements: Anduiras, air; Basaia, fire; Masela, water; and Reynir, earth. Scions of these lines likewise can have similar aptitudes with such. The elemental-nature of the character could very well be a mere reflection of this. After all, if scions with the Elemental Control blood ability, can call and command elementals, there is no reason that such a scion might not be able to develope a deeper bond with bond with the appropriate elemental.

As for planar travel with Birthright, I have always took a strong stand that it just doesn't happen. The barrier is just too strong to cross. Teleportations that go horridly wrong, or the destruction of a Staff of Power/Magi, lends to a similar result in my games: the Shadow World. It's then up to the unfortunate to find their way back, less they become a permanent resident there. Of course, I've never been able to come to an acceptable explanation for the set up of the Sword of Roele adventure, so I have never been able to bring myself to run it.

[Birthright-L]

Hmmm... True... My problem has been more along the lines of someone using
the old (2E) version of Teleport Without Error (called Door of Light in BR,
I think)... And some of those characters have been... shall we say... sent
places where it would be best not to go...

For instance, in one incident... a party was hired by a very powerful
wizard... for something that they did not know much on... That wizard was,
to say the least, insane. One, because he teleported them to the Nine
Hells... And the Ninth plane at that... And two... because he went along
(where either the party was going to kill him, or the devils would)...

In another instance... a shining gate opened in a regent`s throneroom... And
something got pushed through it. Upon examination, the regent found a baby
with golden blond hair... and eyes of the same color. Which led later to
another such event happening, where a baby of the opposite gender was pushed
through... Of course, the campaign ended a bit before they could grow up,
but... it was interesting.

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[Birthright-L]

On Sat, 2 Nov 2002, Kenneth Gauck wrote:

> From: "William Bolitho" <wrb41977@HOTMAIL.COM>
>
> > said baatezu (devil) had to have gotten to Aebrynnis somehow...
>
> Were I ever to use devils and demons, they come from the Shadow World.

I do this when I can`t find any other place for them, but I look for
others whenever possible so as not to have every single weird and nasty
thing in the universe reside there. My personal BR cosmology junks the
"outer" (alignment) planes and keeps the "inner" (elemental) ones, so I
assign those outer planar denizens with obvious elemental associations to
the appropriate elemental plane (ice devils to Ice, pit fiends to Fire,
most of the winged celestials to Air, etc.). I`ve also made a couple of
changes in the other direction; for example, standard nightmares would
seem to fit elemental Fire, but for the mounts of the Magian`s Riders,
I preferred to make them Shadow World critters based on extreme cold.


Ryan Caveney

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[Ariadne]

Originally posted by Birthright-L

Currently, I was considering Cuiraecen`s... Now, for him, I was trying to figure a good outlook. The 2E Para-Elemental Plane of Lightning is of interest, for sure, but... I needed something else... So I went looking at other places, things, etc. [...]

Problem is, I don`t want to give Cuiraecen a weapon with HALF the power of that deity`s... The deity in question is Thor. [..]

As I know, an Avatar of a god has only HALF divine ranks, give him the +5 spear (or whatever). Cuiraécen lives on Ysgaard (Cuiraécen's feasthall), the concept of Walhalla that's why isn't this bad, why do you want to change the plane?

As I now have begun working on Cuiraecen... I am a bit troubled as to what
to make the really worthy faithful that end up on his plane... The warriors
waiting in Valhalla are good and all... but there isn`t an actual half-elf
form for those... So I am a bit... torn... I have been thinking of making
creatures based on the lightning para-elemental monster from 2E... But don`t
know if that would be all that wise..

Please post your work (only of Cuiraécen, if you want) here for discussion. Because he is my favourite god, I might help you with him...