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  1. #121
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    Ryan mentions that actual learning becomes progressivly more difficult, but
    I am satisfied that the progressivly higher cost to advance in character
    levels sufficiently reflects that situation. IMC, most CR are between 2 and
    4 regardless of PC level. A few are crafted with the party`s level clearly
    in mind, but these are generally significant to the story, rather than
    reflections of the wider world.

    Gary asks for a progression of each character class to see how this works
    out. That seems like a lot of space, but I will oblige with three of them.
    I`ll pick a wide variety of character types to demonstrate the range of
    skill capacity: Fighter, Expert/Druid, and Rogue.

    p. 52 of the DMG gives us the following fighter: Str 15, Dex 13, Con 14, Int
    10, Wis 12, Cha 8. He adds all of his ability score improvements to Str.
    I have suggested that this fighter`s skill caps would be Climb (20), Craft
    (10), Handle Animal (8), Jump (20), Ride (13), and Swim (20).
    Level
    1: Craft (Weaponsmith) 4, Swim 2+2, Jump 2+2
    2: Craft (Weaponsmith) 5, Swim 3+2, Jump 2+2
    3: Craft (Weaponsmith) 5, Swim 3+2, Jump 2+2, Ride 2+1
    4: Craft (Weaponsmith) 5, Swim 4+3, Jump 3+3, Ride 2+1
    5: Craft (Weaponsmith) 6, Swim 4+3, Jump 3+3, Ride 3+1
    6: Craft (W) 6, Handle Animal 1-1, Swim 5+3, Jump 3+3, Ride 3+1
    7: Craft (W) 7, Handle Animal 1-1, Swim 5+3, Jump 3+3, Ride 4+1
    8: Craft (W) 8, Handle Animal 1-1, Swim 6+3, Jump 3+3, Ride 4+1
    9: Craft (W) 9, Handle Animal 1-1, Swim 6+3, Jump 3+3, Ride 5+1
    10: Craft (W) 10, Handle Animal 2-1, Swim 6+3, Jump 3+3, Ride 5+1
    11: Craft (W) 10, Handle Animal 2-1, Swim 7+3, Jump 3+3, Ride 6+1
    12: Craft (W) 10, Handle Animal 3-1, Swim 8+4, Jump 4+4, Ride 6+1
    13: Craft (W) 10, Handle Animal 3-1, Swim 9+4, Jump 4+4, Ride 7+1
    14: Craft (W) 10, Handle Animal 4-1, Swim 9+4, Jump 4+4, Ride 8+1
    15: Craft (W) 10, Handle Animal 4-1, Swim 10+4, Jump 4+4, Ride 9+1
    16: Craft (W) 10, Handle Animal 5-1, Swim 11+4, Jump 4+4, Ride 9+1
    17: Craft (W) 10, Handle Animal 5-1, Swim 12+4, Jump 4+4, Ride 10+1
    18: Craft (W) 10, Handle Animal 6-1, Swim 13+4, Jump 4+4, Ride 10+1
    19: Craft (W) 10, Handle Animal 7-1, Swim 13+4, Jump 4+4, Ride 11+1
    20: Craft (W) 10, Handle Animal 8-1, Swim 13+4, Jump 4+4, Ride 12+1

    So our fighter maxed his ranks in Weaponsmith at 10th level, after a heavy
    initial investment at 10 ranks. Latecommers Handle Animal was maxed at 20th
    level at 8 ranks and Ride nearly maxed at 20th level with 12 ranks, although
    in practice a character with a more noble backround might have gone with a
    Str 14 and a Cha 10, and spent one of his ability score increases in Dex to
    boost his horsemanship. This character was no where near his max ranks in
    any Str based skill, and he could have started Armorsmithing, Bowry, or any
    other craft. If the player really wanted more Craft (Weaponsmith) potency
    (say he`s a dwarf), I`d suggest he take Knowledge (Metallurgy), for a
    synergy bonus of +2 at 5 ranks. That would give him a +12 (or +14) on
    checks somewhere in his last several levels. Certainly capable of repairing
    his martial, and even masterwork weapons.

    Our Expert Expert/Druid will take 3 levels of druid as her 1st, 6th, and
    15th levels. this will juice her skill ranks a bit, which is why I recomend
    it to spellcasters, esp those who normally get 2 ranks per level. The druid
    on p. 51 has Str 10, Dex 14, Con 13, Int 12, Wis 15, and Cha 8. All
    increases go into Wis. Skill rank caps for this druid would be Animal
    Empathy (8), Concentration (13), Craft (12), Diplomacy (8), Handle Animal
    (8), Heal (20), Intuit Direction (20), Knowledge (Nature) (12), Profession
    (20), Scry (12), Spellcraft (12), Swim (10), and Wilderness Lore (20). Lets
    specify that this druid is a human and provide the racial +1 skill rank that
    goes with that. Skill orders is based on the recommendations in the PHB.
    Level
    1: Spellcraft 4+1, Animal Empathy 4-1, Concentration 4+1, Heal 4+2,
    Wilderness Lore 4+2, Handle Animal 4-1, Knowledge (Nature) 4+1,
    Listen 2+2, Spot 2+2
    2: Spellcraft 5+1, Animal Empathy 4-1, Concentration 5+1, Heal 5+2,
    Wilderness Lore 5+2, Handle Animal 4-1, Knowledge (Nature) 4+1,
    Listen 2+2, Spot 2+2, Diplomacy 1-1, Intuit Direction 1+2
    3: Spellcraft 6+1, Animal Empathy 5-1, Concentration 6+1, Heal 6+2,
    Wilderness Lore 6+2, Handle Animal 4-1, Knowledge (Nature) 4+1,
    Listen 2+2, Spot 2+2, Diplomacy 1-1, Intuit Direction 2+2
    4: Spellcraft 7+1, Animal Empathy 5-1, Concentration 7+1, Heal 7+3,
    Wilderness Lore 7+3, Handle Animal 5-1, Knowledge (Nature) 5+1,
    Listen 2+3, Spot 2+3, Diplomacy 1-1, Intuit Direction 2+3
    5: Spellcraft 7+1, Animal Empathy 5-1, Concentration 8+1, Heal 8+3,
    Wilderness Lore 8+3, Handle Animal 5-1, Knowledge (Nature) 5+1,
    Listen 2+3, Spot 2+3, Diplomacy 3-1, Intuit Direction 3+3
    6: Spellcraft 8+1, Animal Empathy 5-1, Concentration 9+1, Heal 9+3,
    Wilderness Lore 9+3, Handle Animal 5-1, Knowledge (Nature) 5+1,
    Listen 4+3, Spot 4+3, Diplomacy 3-1, Intuit Direction 3+3
    7: Spellcraft 9+1, Animal Empathy 6-1, Concentration 9+1, Heal 9+3,
    Wilderness Lore 9+3, Handle Animal 5-1, Knowledge (Nature) 6+1,
    Listen 4+3, Sport 4+3, Diplomacy 3-1, Intuit Direction 3+3
    8: Spellcraft 9+1, Animal Empathy 6-1, Concentration 10+1, Heal 10+3
    Wilderness Lore 10+3, Handle Animal 6-1, Knowledge (Nature) 6+1,
    Listen 4+3, Spot 4+3, Diplomacy 4-1, Intuit Direction 4+3
    9: Spellcraft 10+1, Animal Empathy 7-1, Concentration 11+1, Heal 11+3,
    Wilderness Lore 11+3, Handle Animal 6-1, Knowledge (Nature) 6+1,
    Listen 4+3, Spot 4+3, Diplomacy 5-1, Intuit Direction 4+3
    10: Spellcraft 11+1, Animal Empathy 7-1, Concentration 12+1, Heal 12+3,
    Wilderness Lore 12+3, Handle Animal 7-1, Knowledge (Nature) 6+1,
    Listen 4+3, Spot 4+3, Diplomacy 6-1, Intuit Direction 4+3
    11: Spellcraft 12+1, Animal Emapthy 8-1, Concentration 13+1, Heal 13+3,
    Wilderness Lore 13+3, Handle Animal 8-1, Knowledge (Nature) 6+1,
    Listen 4+3, Spot 4+3, Diplomacy 6-1, Intuit Direction 4+3
    12: Spellcraft 12+1, Animal Empathy 8-1, Concentration 13+1, Heal 15+4,
    Wilderness Lore 14+4, Handle Animal 8-1, Knowledge (Nature) 7+1,
    Listen 4+4, Spot 4+4, Diplomacy 7-1, Intuit Direction 5+4
    13: Spellcraft 12+1, Animal Empathy 8-1, Concentration 13+1, Heal 16+4,
    Wilderness Lore 16+4, Handle Animal 8-1, Knowledge (Nature) 4+1,
    Listen 4+4, Spot 4+4, Diplomacy 8-1, Intuit Direction 6+4
    14: Spellcraft 12+1, Animal Empathy 8-1, Concentration 13+1, Heal 17+4,
    Wilderness Lore 17+4, Handle Animal 8-1, Knowledge (Nature) 5+1,
    Listen 4+4, Spot 4+4, Diplomacy 8-1, Intuit Direction 7+4, Profession
    (Herbalist) 2+4
    15: Spellcraft 12+1, Animal Empathy 8-1, Concentration 13+1, Heal 18+4,
    Wilderness Lore 18+4, Handle Animal 8-1, Knowledge (Nature) 6+1,
    Listen 4+4, Spot 4+4, Diplomacy 8-1, Intuit Direction 7+4, Profession
    (Herbalist) 5+4
    16: Spellcraft 12+1, Animal Empathy 8-1, Concentration 13+1, Heal 19+4,
    Wilderness Lore 19+4, Handle Animal 8-1, Knowledge (Nature) 6+1,
    Listen 7+4, Spot 7+4, Diplomacy 8-1, Intuit Direction 7+4, Profession
    (Herbalist) 5+4
    17: Spellcraft 12+1, Animal Empathy 8-1, Concentration 13+1, Heal 19+4,
    Wilderness Lore 19+4, Handle Animal 8-1, Knowledge (Nature) 7+1,
    Listen 8+4, Spot 7+4, Diplomacy 8-1, Intuit Direction 10+4, Profession
    (Herbalist) 5+4
    18: Spellcraft 12+1, Animal Empathy 8-1, Concentration 13+1, Heal 19+4,
    Wilderness Lore 19+4, Handle Animal 8-1, Knowledge (Nature) 9+1,
    Listen 8+4, Spot 8+4, Diplomacy 8-1, Intuit Direction 12+4, Profession
    (Herbalist) 5+4
    18: Spellcraft 12+1, Animal Empathy 8-1, Concentration 13+1, Heal 19+4,
    Wilderness Lore 19+4, Handle Animal 8-1, Knowledge (Nature) 12+1,
    Listen 8+4, Spot 8+4, Diplomacy 8-1, Intuit Direction 15+4, Profession
    (Herbalist) 5+4
    19: Spellcraft 12+1, Animal Empathy 8-1, Concentration 13+1, Heal 19+4,
    Wilderness Lore 19+4, Handle Animal 8-1, Knowledge (Nature) 12+1,
    Listen 8+4, Spot 8+4, Diplomacy 8-1, Intuit Direction 17+4, Profession
    (Herbalist) 7+4, Swim 2
    20: Spellcraft 12+1, Animal Empathy 8-1, Concentration 13+1, Heal 20+4,
    Wilderness Lore 20+4, Handle Animal 8-1, Knowledge (Nature) 12+1,
    Listen 8+4, Spot 8+4, Diplomacy 8-1, Intuit Direction 20+4, Profession
    (Herbalist) 7+4, Swim 3

    Our druid had maxed out Spellcraft, Animal Emapthy, Concentration, and
    Handle Animal by 11th level, but at ranks which were not to shabby. I only
    added two additional skills: Profession (Herbalist) for the synergy bonus
    for Heal, and Swim because water can kill you without it. Myself, I`d take
    a few ranks of Swim before 19th level, but the exercise is on skill maxing,
    so I didn`t hurry. I spent 4 ranks total on cross class skills, bumping
    Listen and Spot up one apiece. Frankly, if you want better raport with
    animals, I don`t think its too much to ask for something better than an 8 in
    Charisma. Likewise in Diplomacy.

    Kenneth Gauck
    kgauck@mchsi.com

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  2. #122
    Site Moderator kgauck's Avatar
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    Having examined how skill caps would effect a fighter and an expert/druid,
    we`ll now move on to rogue. P. 55 of the DMG tells us that our rogue has a
    Str 12, Dex, 15, Con 13, Int 14, Wis 10, Cha 8. I really must say that I
    never slight Charisma as much as these guys do. It certainly has something
    to do with the BR setting, but I tend to put Cha right behind the obvious
    prerequisite in scores. With skill caps our rogue can look forward to
    Appraise (14), Balance (20), Bluff (8), Climb (12), Craft (14), Decipher
    Script (14), Diplomacy (8), Disable Device (14), Disguise (8), Escape Artist
    (20), Forgery (14), Gather Information (8), Hide (20), Innuendo (10),
    Intimidate (8), Intuit Direction (10), Jump (12), Listen (10), Move Silently
    (20). Open Lock (20), Perform (8), Pick Pocket (20), Profession (10), Read
    Lips (14), Search (14), Sense Motive (10), Spot (10), Swim (12), Tumble
    (20), Use Magic Device (8), and Use Rope 20. With an Int 14, we`re already
    up to 10 skill ranks per level, but we`ll consider a human rogue, just to
    juice our skills up to 11/level.
    Level
    1: Move Silently 4+2, Hide 4+2, Climb 4+1, Disable Device 4+2, Listen 4,
    Open Lock 4+2, Search 4+2, Spot 4, Pick Pocket 4+2, Bluff 4-1,
    Decipher Script 2+2, Profession (Merchant) 2
    2: Move Silently 5+2, Hide 5+2, Climb 5+1, Disable Device 5+2, Listen 4,
    Open Lock 5+2, Search 5+2, Spot 4, Pick Pocket 5+2, Decipher Script 2+2,
    Bluff 5-1, Profession (Merchant) 3, Appraise 1+2, Craft (Gemcutter) 1+2,
    Craft (Silversmith) 1+2
    3: Move Silently 6+2, Hide 6+2, Climb 5+1, Disable Device 6+2, Listen 4,
    Open Lock 6+2, Search 6+2, Spot 4, Pick Pocket 6+2, Decipher Script 2+2,
    Bluff 6-1, Profession (Merchant) 4, Appraise 3+2, Craft (Gemcutter) 2+2,
    Craft (Silversmith) 2+2
    4: Move Silently 7+3, Hide 7+3, Climb 6+1, Disable Device 7+2, Listen 5,
    Open Lock 7+3, Search 7+2, Spot 5, Pick Pocket 7+3, Decipher Script 3+2,
    Bluff 6-1, Profession (Merchant) 5, Appraise 3+2, Craft (Gemcutter) 2+2,
    Craft (Silversmith) 2+2
    5: Move Silently 8+3, Hide 8+3, Climb 6+1, Disable Device 8+2, Listen 5,
    Open Lock 8+3, Search 8+2, Spot 6, Pick Pocket 8+3, Decipher Script 4+2,
    Bluff 7-1, Profession (Merchant) 5, Appraise 4+2, Craft (Gemcutter) 2+2,
    Craft (Silversmith) 3+2
    6: Move Silently 9+3, Hide 9+3, Climb 7+1, Disable Device 9+2, Listen 5,
    Open Lock 9+3, Search 9+2, Spot 7, Pick Pocket 9+3, Decipher Script 4+2,
    Bluff 8-1, Profession (Merchant) 5, Appraise 5+2, Craft (Gemcutter) 2+2,
    Craft (Silversmith) 4+2
    7: Move Silently 10+3, Hide 10+3, Climb 7+1, Disable Device 10+2, Listen 6,
    Open Lock 10+3, Search 10+2, Spot 8, Pick Pocket 10+3, Decipher Script 5+2,
    Bluff 8-1, Profession (Merchant) 5, Appraise 5+2, Craft (Gemcutter) 4+2,
    Craft (Silversmith) 5+2
    8: Move Silently 11+3, Hide 11+3, Climb 8+1, Disable Device 11+2, Listen 6,
    Open Lock 11+3, Search 11+2, Spot 8, Pick Pocket 11+3, Decipher Script 5+2,
    Bluff 8-1, Profession (Merchant) 5, Appraise 5+2, Craft (Gemcutter) 5+2,
    Craft (Silversmith) 5+2, Balance 1+3, Escape Artist 1+3, Forgery 1+2
    9: Move Silently 11+3, Hide 12+3, Climb 8+1, Disable Device 12+2, Listen 6,
    Open Lock 13+3, Search 11+2, Spot 8, Pick Pocket 12+3, Decipher Script 6+2,
    Bluff 8-1, Profession (Merchant) 5, Appraise 5+2, Craft (Gemcutter) 5+2,
    Craft (Silversmith) 5+2, Balance 3+3, Escape Artist 3+3, Forgery 3+2
    10: Move Silently 12+3, Hide 12+3, Climb 9+1, Disable Device 12+2, Listen 7,
    Open Lock 14+3, Search 12+2, Spot 8, Pick Pocket 13+3, Decipher Script 8+2,
    Bluff 8-1, Profession (Merchant) 6, Appraise 6+2, Craft (Gemcutter) 5+2,
    Craft (Silversmith) 5+2, Balance 3+3, Escape Artist 3+3, Forgery 4+2
    11: Move Silently 13+3, Hide 13+3, Climb 9+1, Disable Device 13+2, Listen 8,
    Open Lock 14+3, Search 13+2, Spot 9, Pick Pocket 13+3, Decipher Script 9+2,
    Bluff 8-1, Profession (Merchant) 7, Appraise 7+2, Craft (Gemcutter) 5+2,
    Craft (Silversmith) 5+2, Balance 4+3, Escape Artist 4+3, Forgery 4+2
    12: Move Silently 14+4, Hide 14+4, Climb 10+1, Disable Device 14+2, Listen
    9,
    Open Lock 14+4, Search 14+2, Spot 10, Pick Pocket 14+4, Decipher Script
    10+2, Bluff 8-1, Profession (Merchant) 8, Appraise 7+2, Craft (Gemcutter)
    5+2,
    Craft (Silversmith) 5+2, Balance 4+4, Escape Artist 4+4, Forgery 5+2
    13: Move Silently 15+4, Hide 15+4, Climb 10+1, Disable Device 14+2, Listen
    10, Open Lock 15+4, Search 15+2, Spot 10, Pick Pocket 15+4, Decipher Script
    10+2, Bluff 8-1, Profession (Merchant) 9, Appraise 8+2, Craft (Gemcutter)
    6+2,
    Craft (Silversmith) 6+2, Balance 5+4, Escape Artist 5+4, Forgery 5+2
    14: Move Silently 16+4, Hide 16+4, Climb 11+1, Disable Device 14+2,
    Listen 10, Open Lock 16+4, Search 14+2, Spot 10, Pick Pocket 16+4,
    Decipher Script 11+2, Bluff 8-1, Profession (Merchant) 10, Appraise 9+2,
    Craft (Gemcutter) 7+2, Craft (Silversmith) 7+2, Balance 5+4, Escape
    Artist 5+4, Forgery 5+2, Tumble 1+4
    15: Move Silently 17+4, Hide 16+4, Climb 12+1, Disable Device 14+2,
    Listen 10, Open Lock 17+4, Search 14+2, Spot 10, Pick Pocket 16+4,
    Decipher Script 12+2, Bluff 8-1, Profession (Merchant) 10, Appraise 10+2,
    Craft (Gemcutter) 8+2, Craft (Silversmith) 8+2, Balance 5+4, Escape
    Artist 7+4, Forgery 5+2, Tumble 3+4
    16: Move Silently 17+4, Hide 17+4, Climb 10+1, Disable Device 14+2,
    Listen 10, Open Lock 17+4, Search 14+2, Spot 10, Pick Pocket 17+4,
    Decipher Script 13+2, Bluff 8-1, Profession (Merchant) 10, Appraise 11+2,
    Craft (Gemcutter) 9+2, Craft (Silversmith) 9+2, Balance 6+4, Escape
    Artist 8+4, Forgery 6+2, Tumble 6+4
    17: Move Silently 18+4, Hide 17+4, Climb 10+1, Disable Device 14+2,
    Listen 10, Open Lock 18+4, Search 14+2, Spot 10, Pick Pocket 17+4,
    Decipher Script 14+2, Bluff 8-1, Profession (Merchant) 10, Appraise 12+2,
    Craft (Gemcutter) 10+2, Craft (Silversmith) 10+2, Balance 7+4, Escape
    Artist 9+4, Forgery 7+2, Tumble 8+4
    18: Move Silently 18+4, Hide 18+4, Climb 10+1, Disable Device 14+2,
    Listen 10, Open Lock 18+4, Search 14+2, Spot 10, Pick Pocket 18+4,
    Decipher Script 14+2, Bluff 8-1, Profession (Merchant) 10, Appraise 13+2,
    Craft (Gemcutter) 11+2, Craft (Silversmith) 11+2, Balance 7+4, Escape
    Artist 10+4, Forgery 8+2, Tumble 10+4, Use Rope 2+4
    19: Move Silently 19+4, Hide 19+4, Climb 10+1, Disable Device 14+2,
    Listen 10, Open Lock 19+4, Search 14+2, Spot 10, Pick Pocket 19+4,
    Decipher Script 14+2, Bluff 8-1, Profession (Merchant) 10, Appraise 14+2,
    Craft (Gemcutter) 12+2, Craft (Silversmith) 12+2, Balance 8+4, Escape
    Artist 10+4, Forgery 9+2, Tumble 10+4, Use Rope 4+4
    20: Move Silently 20+4, Hide 20+4, Climb 10+1, Disable Device 14+2,
    Listen 10, Open Lock 20+4, Search 14+2, Spot 10, Pick Pocket 20+4,
    Decipher Script 14+2, Bluff 8-1, Profession (Merchant) 10, Appraise 14+2,
    Craft (Gemcutter) 14+2, Craft (Silversmith) 14+2, Balance 8+4, Escape
    Artist 11+4, Forgery 10+2, Tumble 10+4, Use Rope 5+4

    A very reasonable theif specializing in precious metals and gems, with
    sufficient craft ability in his own right to make his sales of stolen goods
    both plausible, and to facilitate the re-setting of stones and so forth. At
    6th level we maxed Bluff, our rogue`s only Cha based skill. One of the
    reasons we needed so good a cover was out inability to lie our way out of
    situations. At 12th level we maxed out on Search and Spot, but with ranks
    sufficient to keep finding the hidden jewels. Listen topped out at 13th
    level. Merchant maxed at 14th level, Climb at 15th and, Decipher Script at
    17th. Appraise maxed at 19th level, while Forgery, Gemcutter and
    Silversmith maxed at 20th.

    These caps don`t seem arbitrary or unduly limiting. their based on the idea
    that our capacity for excellence is limited by our natural aptitude. It
    also puts a little more meaning into our arrangement of ability scores.
    But, like our rogue with a Cha of 8, it also lends itself to natural
    work-arounds which actually ask us to create a character which reflects our
    abilities, rather than just slathering on the skill ranks deeper and higher
    to conceal our weaker ability scores. So artificial and arbitrary? I don`t
    think so. Unlimited progression on a foundation of a weak skills seems more
    artificial and arbitrary from where I sit.

    I don`t see why ability caps would have any effect on the flexibility to use
    an alternate ability score. Swiming is mostly a strength activity, and
    while some dexterity doesn`t hurt, the ability to get better is mostly
    limited by strength.

    Likewise, cross class skills is based on class opportunities, so there is no
    reason to cap it lower than the ability score.

    Kenneth Gauck
    kgauck@mchsi.com

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  3. #123
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    On Thu, 5 Dec 2002, Kenneth Gauck wrote:

    > These caps don`t seem arbitrary or unduly limiting. their based on
    > the idea that our capacity for excellence is limited by our natural
    > aptitude. It also puts a little more meaning into our arrangement of
    > ability scores.

    I agree. I like it. Simple and meaningful, but only bothersome at
    relatively high levels, and even then only with poor planning.

    One question, though: what about ability-enhancing magic devices? If I`ve
    already maxed out my Swim, but I come across a Girdle of Strength +2 and
    wear it every day, can I get two more ranks in Swim the next time I level
    up? What happens if I then lose the item -- do I keep or forfeit the
    extra ranks?

    The same concern arises about Int-enhancing magic items in the usual skill
    system: if I`ve had a Necklace of Intelligence +4 since birth, do I get
    the 2 extra points for every level? What happens if someday I lose it?
    My current thought is to keep all the skill ranks already learned, but I`d
    appreciate it if anyone could point me towards a Sage Advice column which
    addresses the topic.


    Ryan Caveney

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  4. #124
    Site Moderator kgauck's Avatar
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    ----- Original Message -----
    From: "Ryan B. Caveney" <ryanb@CYBERCOM.NET>
    Sent: Friday, December 06, 2002 11:26 AM

    > One question, though: what about ability-enhancing magic devices? If I`ve
    > already maxed out my Swim, but I come across a Girdle of Strength +2 and
    > wear it every day, can I get two more ranks in Swim the next time I level
    > up? What happens if I then lose the item -- do I keep or forfeit the
    > extra ranks?

    I think about the question this way. As a young man, I have a Con and a Dex
    of 12 each. In my youth I max out such skills as Concentration and Ride.
    Would I lose some skill at riding a horse or casting a spell in my old age?
    I am inclined to think not. Skills represent learned abilities and those
    don`t diminish with age. My skill at Climbing doesn`t drop when I`m exposed
    to large scorpion venom and I lose 1d6 Str. What I would say, is that you
    need to wear the Girdle of Giant Strength for enough xp to level up before
    being able to buy skills based on the Girdle. Certainly if I got enough
    experience to get more skill points during a period in which I wore the
    girdle nearly always, I could have learned things which the insight of
    greater strength provided.

    Kenneth Gauck
    kgauck@mchsi.com

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  5. #125
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    On Fri, 6 Dec 2002, Kenneth Gauck wrote:

    > In my youth I max out such skills as Concentration and Ride. Would I
    > lose some skill at riding a horse or casting a spell in my old age?
    > I am inclined to think not.

    > Certainly if I got enough experience to get more skill points during a
    > period in which I wore the girdle nearly always, I could have learned
    > things which the insight of greater strength provided.

    Good, that`s what I was hoping to hear. Thanks for confirming.


    Ryan Caveney

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