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  1. #1
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    Greetings,

    Reading some posts from late august, concerning the 3e conversion of the
    Gorgon, a new idea suddenly struck me.

    It`s a well-known fact that being an awnshegh (or ehrshegh) involves some
    kind of trade-off for all the powers that you get, right? Now what if the
    trade-off of having Longevity (or Long Life or whatever its called) is that
    you suffer a penalty to XP accumulation? The better the Longevity, the
    higher the penalty.

    It seems to me this would be a great way of explaining why such 1500 year
    old figures as Rhuobhe and the Gorgon have not exceeded 40th level and such.

    Also, I`m wondering: from what I know of FR, the Chosen of Mystra in
    general, and Elminster in particular, have been around for quite a while
    now. What`s FR`s explanation for them not having over 40 level? Do they have
    any rationalization for it at all? Does anyone know? Maybe someone can also
    put this into better perspective by telling me how old exactly Elminster and
    friends are?

    "Elminster" - what kinda first name`s that, anyways? Sounds like a smelly
    cheese to me or something.

    Cheers,

    - the Falcon


    ---------------------------------------------
    "Oh no, I won`t let bugbears break our hearts
    Don`t be scared now, you`ll be safe
    I won`t let goblins take you away"
    - The Crash, "Polar"

    "I`ve got the Dungeon Master`s Guide
    I`ve got a 12-sided die
    I`ve got Kitty Pryde and Nightcrawler too
    Waiting there for me, yes I do - I do"
    - Weezer, "In The Garage"
    ---------------------------------------------

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  2. #2
    Site Moderator kgauck's Avatar
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    The way I typically see this problem is that most monsters and challenges
    don`t exceed CR 6. Cerilia doesn`t have very many powerful monsters. It
    has a few really powerful abominations, but it lacks the dragons, giants
    which are merely adventurer fodder. Dragons and giants and so forth are
    either missing, or a special, ancient creatures in Cerilia. Without a
    steady diet of high CR encounters, level advancement must slow down.

    Kenneth Gauck
    kgauck@mchsi.com

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  3. #3
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    On Fri, 20 Sep 2002, the Falcon wrote:

    > Now what if the trade-off of having Longevity (or Long Life or
    > whatever its called) is that you suffer a penalty to XP accumulation?
    > The better the Longevity, the higher the penalty. It seems to me this
    > would be a great way of explaining why such 1500 year old figures as
    > Rhuobhe and the Gorgon have not exceeded 40th level and such.

    It could help with the Gorgon, but not the Manslayer -- as a Sidhe, he was
    immortal from birth. Deismaar didn`t give him Long Life (Great) -- his
    parents gave him even more.


    Ryan Caveney

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  4. #4
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    The way I typically see this problem is that most monsters and challenges
    don`t exceed CR 6. Cerilia doesn`t have very many powerful monsters. It
    has a few really powerful abominations, but it lacks the dragons, giants
    which are merely adventurer fodder. Dragons and giants and so forth are
    either missing, or a special, ancient creatures in Cerilia. Without a
    steady diet of high CR encounters, level advancement must slow down.
    I'm not sure XP should only (or even mainly) be given out to characters for killing stuff (especially non-combatants like wizards, rogues etc.). I don't think this explanation is sufficient to explain the lack of ultra-high level characters. With 2ed it was easy... a lv9 character was already a Hero-type character, with little incentive to progress further than lv 18-20. I don't have the feel for 3ed yet to be able to arbitrarily fix a 'limit', but I still believe in limiting charcater levels (not through any rule or actual limitation, but I don't believe in Diablo-like lv83 characters. [rant] I actually have many issues with 3ed, such as crit hits for nd6 points of damage... more than a fireball? Where's the logic? [/rant] Some aspects of 3ed are better... but not that many, really (I also prefered the skill system for 2ed)).
    Alice laughed. `There's no use trying,' she said: `one CAN'T believe impossible things.'
    `I daresay you haven't had much practice,' said the Queen. `When I was your age, I always did it for half-an-hour a day. Why, sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast'

    -- "Through the Looking Glass", Lewis Caroll

  5. #5
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    Level advancement slows the higher you get anyway - it takes longer and longer to resolve battles; in in-game terms a party at level 1 battling a CR 1 creature will generally resolve the battle in 6-18 seconds; when you get to 30th level, and encounter a CR 30 or higher creature, they are not that easily dispatched; an epic conflict could potentially (and probably ideally) last for months; it isn't just about beating up the bad guy anymore - you need to get him in a position where you can do so without the bad guy teleporting away, not being technically invulnerable, etc.

    Birthright is very well suited to an epic-level campaign - it doesn't have hordes of prismatic dragons or the likes - what it does have is uniquely individualized high-level opposition.

    Now, a sword doing more damage than a fireball would seem pretty logical if you consider that a fireball is an instantaneous effect that rarely leaves things burning for long, whereas a sword might chop your head off; in a way, the variable damage that a sword could potentially inflict is represented by the die range of 1-8; critical hits merely expand a bit on the randomness in this regard, and helps the monsters a lot more than the PCs. The biggest number of dice I can see for a critical hit would be 8d4 for a scythe; apart from that, they seem limited to about 3-4 dice.
    Jan E. Juvstad.

  6. #6
    Site Moderator kgauck's Avatar
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    ----- Original Message -----
    From: "Perhelion" <brnetboard@TUARHIEVEL.ORG>
    Sent: Friday, September 20, 2002 9:26 AM

    > I actually have many issues with 3ed, such as crit hits for nd6
    > points of damage... more than a fireball? Where`s the logic?
    > [/rant] Some aspects of 3ed are better... but not that many,
    > really (I also prefered the skill system for 2ed)).

    Actually, I like crit hits for ndx points of damage. Puts the fighter up
    where he belongs: master of dealing out damage.

    Kenneth Gauck
    kgauck@mchsi.com

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  7. #7
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    On Sat, 2002-09-21 at 10:13, Kenneth Gauck wrote:

    ----- Original Message -----
    From: "Perhelion" <brnetboard@TUARHIEVEL.ORG>
    Sent: Friday, September 20, 2002 9:26 AM

    > I actually have many issues with 3ed, such as crit hits for nd6
    > points of damage... more than a fireball? Where`s the logic?
    > [/rant] Some aspects of 3ed are better... but not that many,
    > really (I also prefered the skill system for 2ed)).

    Actually, I like crit hits for ndx points of damage. Puts the fighter up
    where he belongs: master of dealing out damage.

    makes him quickly dead is what it does. Crits reduce the life expectancy
    of player characters.


    Kenneth Gauck
    kgauck@mchsi.com

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  8. #8
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    Sorry, I meant sneak attacks, my fault for being unclear, I've got no objection to the crit hit system, at least in NWN-type games (where you don't have to bother about dice or the availability of health potions, PnP is a different matter which I've not had the opportunity to try since I've got 3ed).
    Sneak attacks for nd6 points of damage, regardless of the weapon, battle conditions etc... ?!? Where did they dream that up? You where talking about the fighter dishing out damage, where do you rate the rogue in that respect?
    (Not to mention how easy it is to sneak attack somebody i.e. flank him)
    Alice laughed. `There's no use trying,' she said: `one CAN'T believe impossible things.'
    `I daresay you haven't had much practice,' said the Queen. `When I was your age, I always did it for half-an-hour a day. Why, sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast'

    -- &quot;Through the Looking Glass&quot;, Lewis Caroll

  9. #9
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    Orginally posted by Birthright-L


    Also, I`m wondering: from what I know of FR, the Chosen of Mystra in
    general, and Elminster in particular, have been around for quite a while
    now. What`s FR`s explanation for them not having over 40 level? Do they have
    any rationalization for it at all?

    I think that Elminster once had an unpleasant encounter with an ancient vampire, like those in the Van Richten´s Guides. As for the rest of Mystra´s bunch, ask the FR editors ;) .
    wotc = wizards of the cash

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