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  1. #1
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    These are the original duchies:

    Avanil, Taeghas, Boeruine, Alamie, Mhoeried, Cariele, Elinie, Osoerde,
    Aerenwe, Dhalaene (part of modern day Ghoere), Ghieste (part of modern day
    Ghoere), Diemed

    This was taken from the page before the prologue starts in the novel "The
    Iron Throne". It lists the other border nations and colonies in another
    listing. I still am under the impression that Elinie was a colony state
    similar to Talinie and that Brosengae should have been listed as a Duchy.
    My reason is that it is ajacent to Avanil and extremely close to the
    Imperial city. It would not have been a colony. It would have been
    civilized and settled sooner than Elinie.

    As to the subject of how Ghoere came into being. If anyone remembers the
    live chats we had with the TSR BR development team a few years ago, they
    will remember me asking that exact question. Here is a cut and paste from
    the chat record.

    --------------

    ? What exactly happened to the two duchies that compose modern day Ghoere
    (those being the duchies of Dhalaene and Ghieste respectivly? How did they
    become united into one? What became of their duchal families? When exactly
    did it occur? Any official rulings? How much of the imperial civil war was
    put down to paper?

    C: I think this one`s yours, Rich.
    C: O Great Creator ;)
    R: Boy, I had a short essay I did on that, but darned if I remember if it
    went into the back of the Falcon and the Wolf or the Shadowstone.
    E: If it went into Shadowstone, it`s now FR ... ;-)
    R: If it went into F&W, it`s there to read in the free PDF. If it was in
    Shadow Stone, we cut it, and I have no idea where that info is now.
    R: I know that the two duchies --- Ghieste and Bhalaene, I think -- united
    pretty late in the history, maybe about 450 MR or so. In fact, that`s the
    reason Ghoere jumped up as a big power late in history, kind of like the
    unification of Germany in the 1860s. I think that he (or his father) brought
    `em together with a dynastic marriage.
    R: The essay I`m referring to actually descrived most of the big
    Avan-Boeruine wars between Michael`s death and the current date.

    -------------

    Anakin Miller

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  2. #2
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    From: Atari Kid <atarikid@CHARTER.NET>
    > These are the original duchies:
    > Avanil, Taeghas, Boeruine, Alamie, Mhoeried, Cariele, Elinie, Osoerde,
    > Aerenwe, Dhalaene (part of modern day Ghoere), Ghieste (part of modern day
    > Ghoere), Diemed
    > As to the subject of how Ghoere came into being. If anyone remembers the
    > live chats we had with the TSR BR development team a few years ago, they
    > will remember me asking that exact question. Here is a cut and paste from
    > the chat record.
    > --------------
    > ? What exactly happened to the two duchies that compose modern day Ghoere
    > (those being the duchies of Dhalaene and Ghieste respectivly? How did they
    > become united into one? What became of their duchal families? When exactly
    > did it occur? Any official rulings? How much of the imperial civil war was
    > R: Boy, I had a short essay I did on that, but darned if I remember if it
    > went into the back of the Falcon and the Wolf or the Shadowstone.
    > E: If it went into Shadowstone, it`s now FR ... ;-)
    > R: If it went into F&W, it`s there to read in the free PDF. If it was in
    > Shadow Stone, we cut it, and I have no idea where that info is now.
    > R: I know that the two duchies --- Ghieste and Bhalaene, I think -- united
    > pretty late in the history, maybe about 450 MR or so. In fact, that`s the
    > reason Ghoere jumped up as a big power late in history, kind of like the
    > unification of Germany in the 1860s. I think that he (or his father) brought
    > `em together with a dynastic marriage.

    Check _The Falcon and the Wolf_
    p314, a timeline of Mhoried
    339MR The Barony of Ghoere is formed from the old states of Ghieste and
    Bhalaene


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  3. #3
    Birthright Developer Raesene Andu's Avatar
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    Orginally posted by Birthright-L

    This was taken from the page before the prologue starts in the novel "The
    Iron Throne". It lists the other border nations and colonies in another
    listing. I still am under the impression that Elinie was a colony state
    similar to Talinie and that Brosengae should have been listed as a Duchy.
    My reason is that it is ajacent to Avanil and extremely close to the
    Imperial city. It would not have been a colony. It would have been
    civilized and settled sooner than Elinie.

    Although the same could be said for Cariele, it is actually seperated from Anuire by a physical barrier (Like Talinie) on the other side of the Stonecrown mountains, while Elinie is in the heartland of Anuire, roughly the same distance from the capital as Boeruine, Mhoried, and Osoerde.

    Brosengae is a little bit more difficult to explain, but I have always assumed that it was part of Taeghas, only to be lost some time in the past. The fact that Eriene Mierelen refers to herself as duchess is not conclusive, especially when you look at the range of titles that have appeared since the fall of the empire (King/Queen of Aerenwe for example). The fact that Taeghas was a duchy and is now ruled by a count is important. Most likely what has occured here is a civil war some time in the past, with the rightful duke of Taeghas being overthrown and exiled to the lower three provinces (thus forming Brosengae) and his usurper, a count obviously, taking over Taeghas proper. Thus we get Taeghas, one of the original 12 duchies now being ruled over by a relativly minor noble, and Brosengae, a small, seemingly insignificant realm, ruled by a duchess.
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  4. #4
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    Atari Kid <atarikid@CHARTER.NET> wrote at 02-09-19 00.09:

    > I still am under the impression that Elinie was a colony state similar to
    > Talinie and that Brosengae should have been listed as a Duchy. My reason is
    > that it is ajacent to Avanil and extremely close to the Imperial city. It
    > would not have been a colony. It would have been civilized and settled sooner
    > than Elinie.

    I think it is reasonable that Eline was colonized befre Brosengae.

    Brosengae is rough country, Eline fertile plains along the great river of
    the heartlands. Distance is not as important as fertility and accessibility
    when early cultures colonize.

    But I have no support whatsoever from the books either way - I was just
    trying to "think medieval" here.

    /Carl Cramér

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  5. #5
    Site Moderator Magian's Avatar
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    >From: Raesene Andu <brnetboard@TUARHIEVEL.ORG>

    >The fact that Eriene Mierelen refers to herself as duchess is not
    > >conclusive, especially when you look at the range of titles that have
    > >appeared since the fall of the empire (King/Queen of Aerenwe for
    > >example).

    It is my opinion that the title of King for Aerenwe is an act of renouncing
    all ties to imperial status. A claim of sovereignty in which they are only
    answerable to Haelyn (or other deity).

    >The fact that Taeghas was a duchy and is now ruled by a count is
    > >important.

    The title count for Harald Khorien in my opinion is due to the fact that he
    only owns law in one province. I think there is a tie to this somehow.
    Also a good puppet for Avan to control.



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  6. #6
    Senior Member Trithemius's Avatar
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    Magian:
    > It is my opinion that the title of King for Aerenwe is an act
    > of renouncing all ties to imperial status. A claim of
    > sovereignty in which they are only answerable to Haelyn (or
    > other deity).

    I think that the Kings of Aerenwe were just crazy despots. I infer this
    from the mismanagement of the war against Daen Roesone and the ultimate
    overthrow of that demented line by Liliene Swordwraith. YBRMV

    > The title count for Harald Khorien in my opinion is due to
    > the fact that he only owns law in one province. I think
    > there is a tie to this somehow. Also a good puppet for Avan
    > to control.

    Poor of Harald. He should be a much higher level wizard if all he does
    is study IMO.

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