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  1. #1
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    Hello,

    I`ve dug out my old material for the Players Secrets of Diemed I was writing
    a few years ago and I`ve decided to finish the material. I`ve been
    brainstorming over certain items that have always bothered me about the
    official TSR write up of the area.

    My biggest concern is explaining why the current ruler Hierl Diem, is a
    Baron by title, when he is a direct descendant of the original Duke of
    Diemed as appointed by the first emperor of Anuire. Diemed was at one
    point the largest of the 12 imperial duchies so it stands to reason the
    ruling family was indeed a duchal family by title.

    Now one idea is that even though Hierl Diem is indeed a Diem, he is a
    distant relative of the original Diem line. Say that direct heir, last Duke
    of Diemed was slain with no direct heirs. The throne defaulted to a second
    cousin, Hierl Diem, who was only a Baron by hereditary title. It does not
    have to be Hierl either. It could have been his father, grandfather or so
    on. All that is really important is that while he does indeed govern the
    remains of one of the twelve Imperial Duchies, he is only a Baron by birth.

    Now this idea could hold up if the following where held to be true. Only
    the Emperor of Anuire can officially raise someone`s title to Duke, Archduke
    or Prince and have it hold up as legitimate by imperial custom and law. ie
    Only the Emperor can make a Baron into a Duke. Considering the dominant
    faith of the area is the Orthodox Imperial Temple, the last bastion
    dedicated to Haelyn that is known to hold stead fast to the old traditions
    and ways, this idea could stand up. Hierl or those before him could have
    claimed the title of Duke, but the state religion would not have supported
    this claim because it is an illegal claim.

    You could even throw in a condition imposed by the OIT that the Duchy must
    be reunited and the blessings of the emperor obtained before the line can
    claim the title of duke. Also the OIT could have put forth a statement that
    they will only support the new Diem line`s claim once the nonbelievers of
    the Celestial Spell are driven out and the worship of Haelyn reinstated in
    the Barony of Braeme (Medoere).

    I don`t know this is just my interpretation of the situation. I`m stuck in
    the area of trying to develop material for a PS of Diemed while attempting
    to stick to as much cannon material as possible.

    Any ideas, comments, flames etc.....

    -Anakin Miller
    ICQ:168168824
    atarikid@charter.net

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  2. #2
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    My personal conclusion on the matter is that the OIT declared Diemed a
    Barony until it was fully reunited, or at least to the point where the
    OIT was satisfied (such as the removal of Medoere and the church of
    Rournil there). The Baron is not happy with the OIT for doing this, but
    he is determined to make a fight with Medoere instead of the OIT to
    solve this problem.

    Another thing: I`m really interested in Diemed since it is next door to
    my current Crimelords of the Imperial City campaign, and has always been
    one of my favorite realms. Could I interest you in using my website to
    post and develop your Player`s Secrets? It is a Wiki, meaning anyone can
    come in and improve the content on pages. A sort of community effort
    thing. I have a good bit of BR material there now, and am slowly working
    on more. I`d love to help you with it, and get others interested, too.

    My website: http://www.theoretic.com

    Contact me if you are interested, thanks. If not, no worries. :)

    Atari Kid wrote:
    > Hello,
    >
    > I`ve dug out my old material for the Players Secrets of Diemed I was writing
    > a few years ago and I`ve decided to finish the material. I`ve been
    > brainstorming over certain items that have always bothered me about the
    > official TSR write up of the area.
    >
    > My biggest concern is explaining why the current ruler Hierl Diem, is a
    > Baron by title, when he is a direct descendant of the original Duke of
    > Diemed as appointed by the first emperor of Anuire. Diemed was at one
    > point the largest of the 12 imperial duchies so it stands to reason the
    > ruling family was indeed a duchal family by title.


    --
    / Adam Theo, Age 23, Tallahassee FL USA
    // Email & Jabber: theo@theoretic.com
    // Pager: (850) 709 7738
    =//=====
    // || Theoretic Solutions: http://www.theoretic.com
    || "Building Ideas by Bringing them Together"
    || Jabber Protocol: http://www.jabber.org
    || "The Next Generation Communications Protocol"
    || "A Free-Market Socialist Patriotic American Buddhist"

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  3. #3
    Site Moderator kgauck's Avatar
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    I think the right hand didn`t know what the left hand was doing. I pay no
    attention to the goofiness of titles in the published materials. I would
    re-invent the wheel in this case, because I prefer round wheels.

    One of the thing this gets into the the difference between titles and fiefs,
    betweens dukedoms and duchies, but I`ll not throw a match on that barrel of
    gasoline.

    Kenneth Gauck
    kgauck@mchsi.com

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  4. #4
    Senior Member Trithemius's Avatar
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    Kenneth:
    > One of the thing this gets into the the difference between
    > titles and fiefs, betweens dukedoms and duchies, but I`ll not
    > throw a match on that barrel of gasoline.

    Go on, you know you want to :)

    --
    John Machin
    (trithemius@paradise.net.nz)
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    "Nothing is more beautiful than to know the All."
    Athanasius Kircher, Ars Magna Sciendi.

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    John 'Trithemius' Machin
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  5. #5
    Birthright Developer Raesene Andu's Avatar
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    I believe that in the upcoming BRCS the leader of Diemed will be listed as Duke Diem, although I could be wrong on this, I haven't seen much from chapter 5 yet.

    I think we assumed that a mistake was made somewhere in the writing of Ruins of Empire, or that material about the 12 archdukes came later on in the creation of the Birthright Setting, so by then it was out of date. Although all the official material does list him as Baron, I've just become used to calling him Duke Diem after a player in my old pbem game started doing that and after a while you get used to it.
    Let me claim your Birthright!!

  6. #6
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    Actually, I'd be interested to know what exactly where the realms of the 12 archdukes.. I don't remember reading anything specific in the official material. My interpretation is (named after the current-day name of the provinces):
    *Boeruine
    *Diemed(+Medoere, Roesone)
    *Ghoere(not present-day frontiers, but close)
    *Alamie(+Tournen)
    *Mhoried(the title of Mhor would have been that of a vassal of the original Duke of Mhoried... maybe his military leader)
    *Avanil(+Brosengae etc.)
    *Elinie(+bits of Markazor, Coeranys)
    *Aerenwe(+Caelcorwynn)
    *Oesoerde(+ bits of Coeranys)
    *Dhoesone(+Talinie, bits of now-Rjuven territory)
    *Mieres(and other islands in Straights of Aerele)
    *Part of the Gorgon's Crown (?) before Pr. Raesene settled in.
    Alice laughed. `There's no use trying,' she said: `one CAN'T believe impossible things.'
    `I daresay you haven't had much practice,' said the Queen. `When I was your age, I always did it for half-an-hour a day. Why, sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast'

    -- "Through the Looking Glass", Lewis Caroll

  7. #7
    Moo! Are you happy now? Arjan's Avatar
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    We will include a part dedicated to the 12 original duchies in the new BRCS, including a map.
    Morgramen is working on that

    Arjan
    Te audire non possum. Musa sapientum fixa est in aure.

  8. #8
    Site Moderator kgauck's Avatar
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    If a list of the 12 duchies, or some discussion of the 12 aren`t in the FAQ,
    it ought to be put there - probabaly both on BR.net and where ever the BR-L
    FAQ is kept.

    Kenneth Gauck
    kgauck@mchsi.com

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  9. #9
    Site Moderator kgauck's Avatar
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    If a list of the 12 duchies, or some discussion of the 12 aren`t in the FAQ,
    it ought to be put there - probabaly both on BR.net and where ever the BR-L
    FAQ is kept.

    Kenneth Gauck
    kgauck@mchsi.com

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  10. #10
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    Perhelion wrote:
    >
    > This post was generated by the Birthright.net message forum.
    > You can view the entire thread at: http://www.birthright.net/read.php?TID=947
    >
    > Perhelion wrote:
    > Actually, I`d be interested to know what exactly where the realms of the 12 archdukes.. I don`t remember reading anything specific in the official material. My interpretation is (named after the current-day name of the provinces):
    > *Boeruine
    > *Diemed(+Medoere, Roesone)
    > *Ghoere(not present-day frontiers, but close)
    Ghoere was a small barony at that time and thus was AFAIK NOT one of he
    duchies
    > *Alamie(+Tournen)
    > *Mhoried(the title of Mhor would have been that of a vassal of the original Duke of Mhoried... maybe his military leader)
    > *Avanil(+Brosengae etc.)
    > *Elinie(+bits of Markazor, Coeranys)
    > *Aerenwe(+Caelcorwynn)
    > *Oesoerde(+ bits of Coeranys)
    > *Dhoesone(+Talinie, bits of now-Rjuven territory)
    Talinie is itself one of the 12 duchies
    > *Mieres(and other islands in Straights of Aerele)
    Mieres is a colony from Avanil I beleive so that is not one of the 12
    > *Part of the Gorgon`s Crown (?) before Pr. Raedene settled in.
    >

    Cobos

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