Results 1 to 10 of 72
Hybrid View
-
09-10-2002, 08:46 PM #1
One of the things I`ve never really liked about 3e combat is that it`s very
static. There`s a little bit of movement, but for the most part characters
go toe to toe with opponents, roll attacks and take/deliver damage. There
are, of course, rules to make it more dynamic (trip, bull rush, etc.) but
since they provoke attacks of opportunity, players are reluctant to use
them unless their PCs also take feats or a particular prestige class to
avoid the AoO. The following critical hit/fumble variant is meant to make
combat more dynamic.
Fumble
When you roll a 1 on an attack roll you provoke a fumble threat. You must
make a Reflex save (DC 15) to avoid a fumble. If you do fumble one of your
opponents (determined randomly if you face multiple opponents) gets to roll
on the table below.
NOTE: At present I think I`m going to use this for both melee and missile
combat. The results of the table below are almost all melee options, of
course, so it might be argued that an opponent at a distance would not
provoke a character to drop his/er weapon because of a free disarm attempt
or fall prone because of a free trip attack, but the results here are not
necessarily meant to represent an opponent performing that action. Rather,
it represents a character who fumbled actually losing his grip or stumbling
in the highly abstracted D&D combat. More powerful/skillful opponents do
put people in a position where they are more likely to make mistakes, so
using the opponent`s values for the results of a fumble check will reflect
that. I`m not wild about the DC 15 Reflex save to avoid the fumble. I`d
prefer an opposed check, but I couldn`t come up with what traits that check
would be based on.
Critical Hit Variant
After a critical hit is confirmed roll on the following table to determine
additional effects. Taking an additional critical hit effect is
optional. That is, if you get a critical hit on a target and roll a 6 on
the table below you don`t have to make the free grapple attack if you don`t
want.
d12 Result
1 Free strike at armor or shield (50/50).
2 Free disarm attempt. (If target is unarmed reroll this result.)
3 Free sunder attempt. (If target is unarmed reroll this result.)
4 Free feint.
5 Free bull rush attack.
6 Free grapple check.
7 Free trip attack.
8 Make a DC 15 Will save or be dazed for 1 round.
9 Make a DC 15 Will save or be blinded for 1 round.
10 Make a DC 15 Will save or suffer -2 to Str or Dex (50/50)
for 1 round.
11 Target or fumbler suffers x1 of subdual damage.
12 Roll twice ignoring this result if rolled again.
Of these 8-11 are the ones I`m least enthused about. I`d rather an opposed
roll, but again I couldn`t think of what trait(s) would oppose one another
for the purpose of those effects. #11 is OK, but again there`s no opposed
roll which I`d like for all the effects.
Anyone have thoughts on this?
Gary
************************************************** **************************
The Birthright Homepage: http://www.birthright.net
Birthright-l Archives: http://oracle.wizards.com/archives/birthright-l.html
To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM
with UNSUB BIRTHRIGHT-L in the body of the message.
-
09-11-2002, 04:30 AM #2
- Join Date
- Feb 2002
- Location
- Porto Alegre, Brazil
- Posts
- 113
- Downloads
- 0
- Uploads
- 0
Orginally posted by geeman
One of the things I`ve never really liked about 3e combat is that it`s very
static. There`s a little bit of movement, but for the most part characters
go toe to toe with opponents, roll attacks and take/deliver damage.
This ruling is nice, but IMO it could depend less on the DM to determine what is the fumble. Like what Gary made, a table...
I would also like to have a critical hit system like that found on the AD&D Combat and Tatics (that one was cool, but maybe too complex). I say that because I like when, for example, Anakin's arm is cut off... it can be fun to have a fighter with a history (this hand I lost when I was battling the Gorgon and the Kraken...). It's hard to have this with the abstract hp system.
Ok, I admit, I'm sadictic with my PCs ;) .
-
09-11-2002, 04:34 AM #3
- Join Date
- Feb 2002
- Location
- Porto Alegre, Brazil
- Posts
- 113
- Downloads
- 0
- Uploads
- 0
-
09-11-2002, 06:27 AM #4
At 06:34 AM 9/11/2002 +0200, Sir Justine wrote:
>>8 Make a DC 15 Will save or be dazed for 1 round.
>>9 Make a DC 15 Will save or be blinded for 1 round.
>>10 Make a DC 15 Will save or suffer -2 to Str or Dex (50/50) for 1 round.
>
>Good effects, but why Will save? Don`t you think that Fortitude fits more?
I guess there`s an argument for Reflex saves too.
I made it a Will save to reflect a sort of "shake it off" kind of effect
for effect 8 and 9 (dazed and blinded.) Originally, effect 10 was Str, Dex
or Con, so I made that Will so that it couldn`t double up on the ability
score. That is, I wanted to avoid a Fortitude save needed to prevent a Con
loss, and I just kept it a Will save even though I switched the ability
score lost to Str or Dex alone.
Gary
************************************************** **************************
The Birthright Homepage: http://www.birthright.net
Birthright-l Archives: http://oracle.wizards.com/archives/birthright-l.html
To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM
with UNSUB BIRTHRIGHT-L in the body of the message.
-
09-11-2002, 07:33 AM #5
- Join Date
- Sep 2002
- Location
- Sweden
- Posts
- 68
- Downloads
- 0
- Uploads
- 0
Sir Justine <brnetboard@TUARHIEVEL.ORG> wrote at 02-09-11 06.30:
> Orginally posted by geeman
>
> One of the things I`ve never really liked about 3e combat is that it`s very
> static. There`s a little bit of movement, but for the most part characters
> go toe to toe with opponents, roll attacks and take/deliver damage.
>
The quality of 3E cobat is that it IS tactical. This is one of the strong
points of the game.
You can choose between stepping and moving - which effectively gives more
options to unengaged "reserves". A cornered character cannot be otflanked -
but neither can he flee or maneouver. With a few rogues involved, the
question of flanking becomes paramount.
Similarily, which mounted lances about, lines become very valuable; it is
the only way to prevent those Ride-By attacks.
And reach adds a lot of tactical issues, as well.
Of course, this does not mean that there could not be more such tactical
rules - but beware overcomlexivity.
/Carl
************************************************** **************************
The Birthright Homepage: http://www.birthright.net
Birthright-l Archives: http://oracle.wizards.com/archives/birthright-l.html
To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM
with UNSUB BIRTHRIGHT-L in the body of the message.
-
09-11-2002, 08:38 AM #6
- Join Date
- Nov 2001
- Location
- Sydney, Australia
- Posts
- 474
- Downloads
- 0
- Uploads
- 0
On Wed, 2002-09-11 at 06:27, Gary wrote:
One of the things I`ve never really liked about 3e combat is that it`s very
static. There`s a little bit of movement, but for the most part characters
go toe to toe with opponents, roll attacks and take/deliver damage. There
are, of course, rules to make it more dynamic (trip, bull rush, etc.) but
since they provoke attacks of opportunity, players are reluctant to use
them unless their PCs also take feats or a particular prestige class to
avoid the AoO. The following critical hit/fumble variant is meant to make
combat more dynamic.
One of the things I`ve never really liked about 2e combat is that they
made the incredibly stupid mistake of attempting to make it simulate
real combat (against the strongest advice from EGG). One of the basic
tenets of AD&D was that the combat system had nothing whatsoever to do
with simulating combat. A one minute round was abstracted into a single
die roll and that was that - all the feints, multiple attacks, dodges,
maneuvers, swishing and swooping, movement etc - all abstracted into a
single simple roll, no need for initiative, weapon speed, hit locations,
critical hits, and all the other detail that can be added infinitum when
you try and simulate something. Perfect!
Fumble
When you roll a 1 on an attack roll you provoke a fumble threat. You must
make a Reflex save (DC 15) to avoid a fumble. If you do fumble one of your
opponents (determined randomly if you face multiple opponents) gets to roll
on the table below.
NOTE: At present I think I`m going to use this for both melee and missile
combat. The results of the table below are almost all melee options, of
course, so it might be argued that an opponent at a distance would not
provoke a character to drop his/er weapon because of a free disarm attempt
or fall prone because of a free trip attack, but the results here are not
necessarily meant to represent an opponent performing that action. Rather,
it represents a character who fumbled actually losing his grip or stumbling
in the highly abstracted D&D combat. More powerful/skillful opponents do
put people in a position where they are more likely to make mistakes, so
using the opponent`s values for the results of a fumble check will reflect
that. I`m not wild about the DC 15 Reflex save to avoid the fumble. I`d
prefer an opposed check, but I couldn`t come up with what traits that check
would be based on.
Critical Hit Variant
After a critical hit is confirmed roll on the following table to determine
additional effects. Taking an additional critical hit effect is
optional. That is, if you get a critical hit on a target and roll a 6 on
the table below you don`t have to make the free grapple attack if you don`t
want.
d12 Result
1 Free strike at armor or shield (50/50).
2 Free disarm attempt. (If target is unarmed reroll this result.)
3 Free sunder attempt. (If target is unarmed reroll this result.)
4 Free feint.
5 Free bull rush attack.
6 Free grapple check.
7 Free trip attack.
8 Make a DC 15 Will save or be dazed for 1 round.
9 Make a DC 15 Will save or be blinded for 1 round.
10 Make a DC 15 Will save or suffer -2 to Str or Dex (50/50)
for 1 round.
11 Target or fumbler suffers x1 of subdual damage.
12 Roll twice ignoring this result if rolled again.
Of these 8-11 are the ones I`m least enthused about. I`d rather an opposed
roll, but again I couldn`t think of what trait(s) would oppose one another
for the purpose of those effects. #11 is OK, but again there`s no opposed
roll which I`d like for all the effects.
Anyone have thoughts on this?
Gary
************************************************** **************************
The Birthright Homepage: http://www.birthright.net
Birthright-l Archives: http://oracle.wizards.com/archives/birthright-l.html
To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM
with UNSUB BIRTHRIGHT-L in the body of the message.
************************************************** **************************
The Birthright Homepage: http://www.birthright.net
Birthright-l Archives: http://oracle.wizards.com/archives/birthright-l.html
To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM
with UNSUB BIRTHRIGHT-L in the body of the message.
-
09-11-2002, 10:47 AM #7
- Join Date
- Nov 2001
- Location
- Germany near Frankfurt
- Posts
- 295
- Downloads
- 0
- Uploads
- 0
If you search for a critical-hit rule, look at the 2. Edition source book "Combat and tactics". However, the fumble and critical hit rule you invented do not fit to the 3. Edition rules.
for example the rules in the epic level handbook make the die rolls open-ended: if you throw a 20, you can make an additional throw and add them together.
i have seen several critical hit rules in D&D, and it nether worked well compared to "Rolemaster" o.a.my purpose is now to lead you into the Pallace where you shall have a clear and delightful view of all those various objects, and scattered excellencies, that lye up and down upon the face of creation, which are only seen by those that go down into the Seas, and by no other....
-
09-11-2002, 10:51 AM #8
- Join Date
- Nov 2001
- Location
- Germany near Frankfurt
- Posts
- 295
- Downloads
- 0
- Uploads
- 0
Further how do you handle the critical thread range of weapons with this rule?
my purpose is now to lead you into the Pallace where you shall have a clear and delightful view of all those various objects, and scattered excellencies, that lye up and down upon the face of creation, which are only seen by those that go down into the Seas, and by no other....
-
09-11-2002, 02:01 PM #9
At 12:51 PM 9/11/2002 +0200, Azrai wrote:
> Further how do you handle the critical thread range of weapons with this
> rule?
When I scribbled that table up I imagined that it would be used as an
addition to the standard critical hit rules. That is, you still need to
confirm a critical threat, the critical hit still does a multiplier of
damage according to the weapon type, then you roll on that table. The idea
being that all three steps require a die roll and the results of third step
on that table is more often than not an opposed check rather than the
automatic effect of most critical hit tables I`ve seen. That`s why I
wanted some sort of opposed check rather than a DC for the fumble section,
and why I wanted all the options on that table to be opposed as
well. Thematically opposed checks fit in with the overall concept that
these are "forced" effects and if all the effects have a similar game
mechanic then the option has some consistency, which is why I`m not
satisfied with the options that don`t have an opposed check in them.
Gary
************************************************** **************************
The Birthright Homepage: http://www.birthright.net
Birthright-l Archives: http://oracle.wizards.com/archives/birthright-l.html
To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM
with UNSUB BIRTHRIGHT-L in the body of the message.
-
09-11-2002, 02:57 PM #10
- Join Date
- Nov 2001
- Location
- Germany near Frankfurt
- Posts
- 295
- Downloads
- 0
- Uploads
- 0
I see.
concerning the opposed checks there were some good rules for criticals in the "Dark Sun Gladiator Handbook". I have to read it up somehow.my purpose is now to lead you into the Pallace where you shall have a clear and delightful view of all those various objects, and scattered excellencies, that lye up and down upon the face of creation, which are only seen by those that go down into the Seas, and by no other....
Thread Information
Users Browsing this Thread
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Bookmarks