Detect Bloodline Skill.

[kgauck]

----- Original Message -----
From: "Sir Justine" <brnetboard@TUARHIEVEL.ORG>
Sent: Monday, September 09, 2002 9:28 PM


> The only point [where] I criticize Scry is that, as a rule, I
> think it`s weak because it isn`t connected with the other
> rules. As I said, only ONE skill for magic is something I
> don`t agree with. I will certainly work on linking skills to
> magic IMC.

One thing to do to expand Scry`s use is to use that skill for every
Clairaudience/ Clairvoyance, Arcane Eye, Detect Scrying, and Prying Eyes
attempt. How widely you spread that net is up to you. I`m not including
Detect and Locate spells where you just get a general sense that some object
or a source of evil is "over there". But, you could.

Kenneth Gauck
kgauck@mchsi.com

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[Ariadne]

Originally posted by geeman

Could you give us the gist? I don`t have that particular text. How would that feat work?

I don't have the particular text of the "dragon blood" feat in the moment too, but a character of my has it. As I remember:

You can take it only at first level. Prerequisites: Cha 13.

If you have this feat, make a search check DC 15 and you can detect magic at an item, you touch. If you make a search check DC 20, you can detect magic at an item, you are close at (you needn't to touch it).


The "detect bloodline" feat wouldn't be identical to this, but may be familiar.

[Azrai]

If you make a skill out of "bloodline detection", this thing becomes too normal - it would be a problem to make a dectection roll everytime you see people. on the other side this is exactly the "highlander" effect.

A feat is more unique, not every blooded will have it. like Ariadne pointed out, some kind of search DC might be possible.

[geeman]

At 03:07 PM 9/11/2002 +0200, Azrai wrote:

>If you make a skill out of "bloodline detection", this thing becomes too
>normal - it would be a problem to make a dectection roll everytime you see
>people. on the other side this is exactly the "highlander" effect.
>
>A feat is more unique, not every blooded will have it. like Ariadne
>pointed out, some kind of search DC might be possible.

One of the reasons I avoid using feats for this kind of thing is because
the mechanic of feats is rather static. A skill allows a character to
incrementally increase his talent, and in a case like this one I wanted to
have the DC increase to infinity based on the "base DC" which came from
bloodline strength and the distance at which the target of the check was at
(+5 per 10` of distance.) Skills are more versatile than feats in that
regard. Using a feat you can`t really do that unless you take most of the
functions of a skill and put them into the feat. Skills also allow a lot
more variation in ability and incremental improvement which is what I like
in a level based system like D&D.

If it is the rarity of the ability to detect a bloodline that is of concern
I would recommend making the skill itself accessible only after taking a
feat. Call it "Blood Sensitivity" or something like that and have its
function be that it makes Detect Bloodline a class skill for the
character. That way you get the best of both; a unique talent restricted
to those who take a feat, and the incremental skill mechanic with it`s
infinite range of DC possible.

Gary

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[kgauck]

Why can`t you take a feat that allows you to use the
skill? The skill could be exlcusive and not available
to any class. Take the feat, and the skill becomes a
class skill. Most feats actually use the skill system,
saving throws, or BAB, all of which are incrementally
increased with experience.

Its true that there is another kind of feat that removes
a restriction. This doesn`t mean that a feat can`t use
or advance the skill system, rather than just being an
auxillury ability system.

Kenneth Gauck
kgauck@mchsi.com
> At 03:07 PM 9/11/2002 +0200, Azrai wrote:
>
> >If you make a skill out of "bloodline detection", this thing becomes too
> >normal - it would be a problem to make a dectection roll everytime you see
> >people. on the other side this is exactly the "highlander" effect.
> >
> >A feat is more unique, not every blooded will have it. like Ariadne
> >pointed out, some kind of search DC might be possible.
>
> One of the reasons I avoid using feats for this kind of thing is because
> the mechanic of feats is rather static. A skill allows a character to
> incrementally increase his talent, and in a case like this one I wanted to
> have the DC increase to infinity based on the "base DC" which came from
> bloodline strength and the distance at which the target of the check was at
> (+5 per 10` of distance.) Skills are more versatile than feats in that
> regard. Using a feat you can`t really do that unless you take most of the
> functions of a skill and put them into the feat. Skills also allow a lot
> more variation in ability and incremental improvement which is what I like
> in a level based system like D&D.
>
> If it is the rarity of the ability to detect a bloodline that is of concern
> I would recommend making the skill itself accessible only after taking a
> feat. Call it "Blood Sensitivity" or something like that and have its
> function be that it makes Detect Bloodline a class skill for the
> character. That way you get the best of both; a unique talent restricted
> to those who take a feat, and the incremental skill mechanic with it`s
> infinite range of DC possible.
>
> Gary
>
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[Sir Justine]

Orginally posted by kgauck

Why can`t you take a feat that allows you to use the
skill? The skill could be exlcusive and not available
to any class. Take the feat, and the skill becomes a
class skill. Most feats actually use the skill system,
saving throws, or BAB, all of which are incrementally
increased with experience.

Sure, that would be a good mechanic. It's not exactly the same thing, but is like the way Track works with Wilderness Lore. It just must be balanced - Something that you must spend a feat and skill points to do must be worth it.

[Ariadne]

Naturally making it a feat (as Track) might avoid a reflexive form of use (to "feel" being detected). But may be, non-trained blooded characters can use it too (as they can try to track footprints with a lower DC).

[geeman]

At 04:44 AM 9/12/2002 +0000, Kenneth Gauck wrote:

>Why can`t you take a feat that allows you to use the skill? The skill
>could be exlcusive and not available to any class. Take the feat, and the
>skill becomes a class skill.

Isn`t that what what I was suggesting? :)

In fact, I use several generic feats that do that kind of thing. The first
is called "Talent" and gives the character +2 on two different skills,
similar to Alertness in the PHB. Both those skills are then class skills
for the character no matter what class he levels up in. I don`t actually
use Alertness, though. "Talent" is a generic feat because I have a list of
paired skills that I assign the bonus to and I want to control those
pairs. One of the skills in question is generally a more useful skill than
the other, in an attempt to balance the effects of that feat and encourage
players to take on some of the less common skills. I also use a Skill
Emphasis, Skill Expertise, Skill Mastery series of feats, each of which
give a cumulative +3 to a particular skill. The skill is a class skill for
the PC from the point he takes Skill Emphasis.

When it comes to this Detect Bloodline skill, however, my plan is to give
access to the skill to all blooded characters, and require a feat for
non-blooded characters. This fits into a couple of concepts about how the
domain level works and generally seems like an interesting compromise. I
like some of the Force/Highlander-esque aspects of bloodline, one feature
of which would be sensitivity to the proximity of other blooded
characters. ("Do you feel that, brother? That is the quickening!" or "The
last time I felt that was in the presence of my old master.") Also, using
a Detect Bloodline skill as a basis we can extrapolate a few things about
how the BR domain level works--particularly spending RP. By including such
a skill as a class skill for all blooded characters we can see how they are
sensitive to the use of domain level bloodline effects and can, therefore,
tell when regents are performing domain actions. That not only makes them
aware of what other regents are doing in a domain, a feature of the domain
system that many people argue against, but also could be used to
rationalize them knowing how/where/when to direct their RP in a bidding war.

Other folks might not want to give access to the skill as "easily" as just
having a bloodline, so for them requiring a feat is an option. Of course,
it makes the skill equally useful for blooded and common characters, and I
think blooded characters should have an advantage but YMMV. It might also
be a good idea to come up with an independent feat (like "Bloodline
Sensitivity" that I suggested before) to allow access to Detect Bloodline
as a class skill because using feats like the ones I use not only makes the
skill a class skill but also gives a bonus to skill checks, which again
might not reflect how difficult some people want to the skill to be to
acquire. A special feat could also be used to deal with the
blooded/commoner issue in its descriptive text. It could make Detect
Bloodline a class skill for blooded characters and a cross class skill for
commoners, or whatever permutation the DM wanted to assign.

I am, however, planning on coming up with at least two and probably more
like five more "blood skills" that I will handle similarly to Detect
Bloodline. That is, blooded characters have access to them as class
skills, and commoners can take a feat to gain access. In the 3e bloodline
system I`ve been fiddling with this seems to make perfect sense, but I
could just be off my rocker. I`ll see if I can transcribe some of that for
commentary by various listers in the next couple of days. It`s a fairly
radical departure, so if the recent comments regarding the birthright.net
3e conversion are any indication I expect my little idiosyncratic version
will raise more than a few eyebrows.

Gary

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