D20 publishing craze... anything useful to BR?

[Trithemius]

Gary:
> There are some general things it has to offer BR. As for the
> general flavor of the setting, WoT has many of the
> "Tolkien-like" features that BR shares. WoT is a similarly
> low magic setting and its weave system of magic is probably
> more appropriate to BR (IMO) than D&D/D20`s. Wilders and
> Initiates have a much closer relationship than D&D`s wizards
> and sorcerers, which could be used to reflect the differences
> between elven and human magic in BR. The corrupting
> influence of saidin (the male aspect of the magical forces in
> the WoT setting) could be used as a basis for the corrupting
> influence of Azrai`s bloodline and the transformation of awnsheghlien.

I`m afraid that I can`t say I link WoT with Tolkien much. I can see
where some of the ideas are coming from but I see it as pretty damn far
from what I conceive of as `Tolkien-like`.

> A few other things in the WoT supplement could be used for
> BR. It`s system of reputation is better than anything in the
> BR materials. The WoT`s Woodsman is also a good basis for
> changes to the ranger. There`s also a noble PC class. Not
> having a noble PC class in BR is a glaring omission. You`d
> probably want to tweak them, but several of the variants I`ve
> suggested on birthright-l have been based on the WoT supplement.

I suppose that some people might like to `port some of the aspects
across. I personally am not keen to and would rather start from the
ground up. I suppose its down to sheer preference. I just don`t find
anything especially useful there myself, that`s all.

--
John Machin
(trithemius@paradise.net.nz)
-----------------------------------
"Nothing is more beautiful than to know the All."
Athanasius Kircher, Ars Magna Sciendi.

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[Birthright-L]

When it comes to roleplaying, living in Europe can sometimes be a real
headache. Most products need about one to two months to cross the Atlantic,
if they arrive at all. For example, I`m missing two recent issues of the
Dragon Magazine, and the Stronghold Builders Guidebook and the Epiclevels
Handbook arrived at my local game store two days ago.

In addition, the prices are considerably higher than in the US, at least
judging from the recommended prices given on the books. The FR campaign
setting went for about 55 dollars (recommended price $39.95). The epic level
handbook would go for 51 euros (that`s something inbetween 45-50$). As my
budget is a little tight at the moment, I have to decide carefully which
books to buy and which to leave on the shelf until I`m really earning what I
deserve ;)

As a result I would really appreciate if some of you guys would be willing
to evaluate new products in depth, with regard to their usefulness for BR.
If I remember correctly something like this has been discussed on the list
when Masters of the Wild came out.

For now I have three specific questions/comments.

1) I decided against buying the Stronghold builders guidebook, as I didn`t
find anything really useful and new that I couldn`t do myself. With regard
to building components I do have the 2e Castle guide. Does the stronghold
book improve considerably when compared to this older publication in your
opinion? Some of the traps might be useful, but Song and silence already
covers trap design. Any opinions?

2) I`m a little unsure whether to buy the epic levels book. Some of the
monsters look interesting (I always liked the demi-lich. The dragons look
interesting, too, though not really fitting within Cerilia). However, the
main function the book could fulfill was to supply some of Cerilia`s main
antagonists (the Gorgon, Rhuobhe, the Magician) with epic feats. As I just
browsed through the book for a few minutes in the store, I really don`t know
if this will be worth buying the book. Comments?

3)One of my missing issues of Dragon magazine contained some kind of
domain-like rules. Was there something in this article that could improve
the BR domain rules?

Christoph Tiemann

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[Ariadne]

Orginally posted by Birthright-L (Christoph Tiemann)

When it comes to roleplaying, living in Europe can sometimes be a real headache.

Oh yes, that's real true!!! (Especially, if you mean these prices)

Orginally posted by Birthright-L (Christoph Tiemann)

Does the stronghold book improve considerably when compared to this older publication in your opinion? Some of the traps might be useful, but Song and silence already covers trap design. Any opinions?

There are some new things in this book (especially the magical specials are good), but if you have the 2nd edition version, you can save your money... There are other books, if you only like to create traps.

Orginally posted by Birthright-L (Christoph Tiemann)

2) I’m a little unsure whether to buy the epic levels book.
As I just browsed through the book for a few minutes in the store, I really don`t know if this will be worth buying the book. Comments?

I have the epic level handbook and I find it useful (naturally only if you play or create epic characters and if you ignore it's price ;) ). The prestige class expansion is a good one, the feats of cause (if you forget the horrible requirements for some) and several epic prestige classes. It's a pity, that books such as "deities and demigods" are published without taking it into consideration. About some skills you can discuss, of cause... IMO some monsters are a little bit overpowered (even a god has problems with them). Last a great section is this about these epic magical items (such as a belt of giant strength +10)

3)One of my missing issues of Dragon magazine contained some kind of domain-like rules. Was there something in this article that could improve the BR domain rules?[/b][/quote]
Which dragon magazine do you mean?

[Birthright-L]

On Sun, 8 Sep 2002, Christoph Tiemann wrote:
> 3)One of my missing issues of Dragon magazine contained some kind of
> domain-like rules. Was there something in this article that could improve
> the BR domain rules?

No. I think the article you mean was one of the Dungeoncraft articles-
many of them are online at
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=drago...on/dungeoncraft

Issue 293 contains a system for dividing up a realm into 10 mile by 10
mile squares, rating income, population, etc. I didn`t really like it.
--
Communication is possible only between equals.
Daniel McSorley- mcsorley@cis.ohio-state.edu

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[Trithemius]

Daniel McSorley:
> Issue 293 contains a system for
> dividing up a realm into 10 mile by 10 mile squares, rating
> income, population, etc. I didn`t really like it.

If I was going to do something like this I`d probably use Kenneth`s
arable land system. I like hexes better than squares.

--
John Machin
(trithemius@paradise.net.nz)
-----------------------------------
"Nothing is more beautiful than to know the All."
Athanasius Kircher, Ars Magna Sciendi.

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[Birthright-L]

Ariadne wrote:
>>One of my missing issues of Dragon magazine contained some kind of
domain-like rules. Was there something in this article that could improve
the BR domain rules?[/quote]
> Which dragon magazine do you mean?<<
Issue 293. According to my local game store this issue never made it to
Europe, though. However I was indeed able to download the article under the
link Daniel McSorley pointed out (Thanks to you!). Here it is again:
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=drago...on/dungeoncraft
There seems to be a table missing, though.

Christoph Tiemann

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[Birthright-L]

<< Issue 293. According to my local game store this issue never made it to
Europe, though. However I was indeed able to download the article under the
link Daniel McSorley pointed out (Thanks to you!). Here it is again:
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=drago...on/dungeoncraft
There seems to be a table missing, though.
>>

If possible, could someone perhaps post the missing table from Dungeoncraft
in Dragon 293 here on list, please? It would be greatly appreciated.

- the Falcon

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[Ariadne]

Originally posted by Sir Justine

It`s that they are lazy when they make the classes, and instead of creating nice abilities for then they just make then cast spells...

May I say, that a 2nd edition ranger could cast spells too? (If he had enough levels)

[Eosin the Red]

What table is missing? I have the mag and am willing to type it up.



----- Original Message -----
From: "the Falcon" <M.M.Richert@ITS.TUDELFT.NL>
To: <BIRTHRIGHT-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sent: Friday, September 13, 2002 3:41 AM
Subject: Re: D20 publishing craze... anything useful to BR? [2#913]


> << Issue 293. According to my local game store this issue never made it to
> Europe, though. However I was indeed able to download the article under
the
> link Daniel McSorley pointed out (Thanks to you!). Here it is again:
> http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=drago...on/dungeoncraft
> There seems to be a table missing, though.
> >>
>
> If possible, could someone perhaps post the missing table from
Dungeoncraft
> in Dragon 293 here on list, please? It would be greatly appreciated.
>
> - the Falcon
>
>
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>

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[Birthright-L]

Eosin the Red wrote:
>> What table is missing? I have the mag and am willing to type it up.<<

Well, actually there may be several things missing. The article mentions a
"Realm Control Sheet" which is not provided. That is not a very important
omission since the contents can be deducted from the article.
The next thing missing is the "population multiple", which seems to be based
on terrain.
Last but not least, the "resource multiples" for different terrain types
were ommitted in the online version (plains generate one resource per square
and jungles two, according to the example provided)
I would be interested mostly in the resource modifiers, as I believe they
may be useful for BR, e.g. providing a hierarchy of terrain types according
to usefulness in terms of natural resources.

BTW, Eosin the Red, could you provide a link for the WoT RPG site you
mentioned in the 3ed conversion thread?! That would be highly appreciated as
well.

Christoph Tiemann

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