New Multi-Classing Rule.

[geeman]

Here`s a new version of the multi-classing rules I`ll be using. The new
version goes like this:

Provoking Multi-Class XP Penalties

Every character gets a Favored Class, a Preferred Class and an Advanced
Class. Character levels taken outside of those three categories provoke a
cumulative 10% XP penalty.

Favored Class works exactly how it does in the standard rules. Humans may
choose their Favored Class, while other races have one chosen for them, and
that class does not count towards multi-class XP penalties.

Preferred Class: Preferred Class works for characters of all races the same
way Favored Class works for humans. That is, any character can pick a
Preferred Class and levels of that class don`t count towards multi-class XP
penalties. A Preferred Class can not be a prestige class. (I`m kind of
debating this last restriction, since in the long run I don`t think it`ll
make that much of a difference if a Preferred Class is also a prestige
class, allowing the character to have a single core class and two prestige
classes.)

Advanced Class: In the current 3e rules, levels taken in any prestige
classes do not count towards multi-class XP penalties. A character of high
enough level (around 8th or so) can usually qualify for several prestige
classes, taking a few levels here and there in a way that would otherwise
provoke a multi-class penalty. When fiddling around with character
progressions using the core multi-class rules, I found that a character
could take 1 or 2 levels in just about any character class I wanted, and
after a while qualify for enough prestige classes similar enough to the
core class that it effectively destroys much point in having a favored
class or multi-class penalty system at all. A human barbarian 3/fighter
2/rogue 2 can take a level as a Gladiator, a few Ghostwalker levels, a
level or two as a Devoted Defender, etc. without incurring any penalties,
effectively giving them unlimited access to (arguably more powerful
versions) of the core classes without the kinds of restrictions in place on
lower powered character classes. So I`ve added the Advanced Class
category, which replaces the rule that excludes all prestige classes from
multi-classing penalties. Using this option a character can have a single
prestige class that does not count towards a multi-class XP penalty, but
any additional levels in a second (third, fourth, or more) prestige class
do earn a penalty.


Paying Multi-Class XP Penalties

These class qualifications fit into a change in the way the multi-classing
XP penalties work. Instead of a 20% penalty for taking levels in each
non-favored character class that is 2 or more steps away from one
another. An elf fighter 3/rogue 1, for example. Using these optional
rules any levels taken in a class that isn`t designated a Favored,
Preferred or Advanced Class provoke a 10% XP penalty per level. (At first
I went with a 5% penalty per level since it fits into the "base 20" nature
of 3e, but I found that a very slight penalty to pay and 10% works just as
well.) So a human character can still be a Fighter 6/Rogue 3/Ghostwalker 4
but if s/he takes on a fourth class then there`s a 10% penalty for each
level taken in that additional class.


Multi-Classing Feats

The other major addition is that one can take a feat which I`m calling (in
a startling burst of imagination) "Additional Preferred Class" which allows
a character to--you guessed it--take on an additional preferred class that
does not incur an multi-classing XP penalty. The class in question must be
chosen when the feat is taken. I thought this was a heady innovation until
I described it to a couple of players in my group who informed me that
something very similar appears in the Forgotten Realms D20 text. Oh, well.

This feat does force kind of a weird situation in which characters may wind
up paying an XP penalty for one or two levels before they get access to a
feat slot. A Ftr3/Rog3/Wiz3 who takes on a fourth class at level 10th and
11th level will wind up paying a 10% and then a 20% penalty for during
those two levels until s/he reaches 12th level and can take that feat,
while a Ftr3/Rog4/Wiz4 could just take that 12th level in a fourth class
and take the feat at the same time, avoiding any penalty. That`s a bit
inorganic. Of course, using the standard rules the same 10th level
character is going to either pay 20% for taking on a fourth class or 0% (if
it is a prestige class) until the character levels that fourth class up to
level 3 where the penalty goes away, but then the 20% penalty kicks in
again as soon as that class (or any of the others) go out of sync with any
of the others. It`s not perfect, but I like it better then the current
rules, so I`m going with this.

I`m also considering another feat that I`m "Jack of All Trades." (I know
that conflicts with the name of an existing feat, but I`ve never liked that
one, so this will replace it.) This feat would reduce XP multi-class
penalties by half (to 5% per level rather than 10%) so if someone wanted to
play a character who had character levels all over the place they could do
so while incurring a lower overall penalty without having to burn 2+
feats. Since the Favored, Preferred and Advanced Class options are
available I don`t think this feat would be used very often, but you never know.

Gary

************************************************** **************************
The Birthright Homepage: http://www.birthright.net
Birthright-l Archives: http://oracle.wizards.com/archives/birthright-l.html
To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM
with UNSUB BIRTHRIGHT-L in the body of the message.

[kgauck]

My players would no doubt favor such a system, I don`t give blooded humans
the choice of any Favored Class. Blooded humans have a favored class
determied by their bloodline (except Azrai, who still gets the choice).
This limitation and a skill bonus are the only impact bloodline has on
class.

Kenneth Gauck
kgauck@mchsi.com

************************************************** **************************
The Birthright Homepage: http://www.birthright.net
Birthright-l Archives: http://oracle.wizards.com/archives/birthright-l.html
To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM
with UNSUB BIRTHRIGHT-L in the body of the message.

[geeman]

At 11:49 PM 8/22/2002 -0500, Kenneth Gauck wrote:

>My players would no doubt favor such a system, I don`t give blooded humans
>the choice of any Favored Class. Blooded humans have a favored class
>determied by their bloodline (except Azrai, who still gets the
>choice). This limitation and a skill bonus are the only impact bloodline
>has on class.

That`s an interesting option. I`ve been considering allowing the favored
class to have a couple of options. Cerilian elves, for instance, might
have wizard or sorcerer as a favored class, just as an example. Something
like that. Having three categories of classes that don`t provoke
multi-classing XP penalties is a lot, though, so I don`t want to add
another category. I`d rather have them fit into one of those three, but it
seems perfectly sensible that if one includes something like an
Awnsheghlien prestige class that those with Azrai`s bloodline and the
bloodform blood ability shouldn`t have to pay a penalty for leveling up in
that class.

Gary

************************************************** **************************
The Birthright Homepage: http://www.birthright.net
Birthright-l Archives: http://oracle.wizards.com/archives/birthright-l.html
To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM
with UNSUB BIRTHRIGHT-L in the body of the message.

[Crumbiness]

I allow for my players to freely multiclass as long as it fits through role-playing and/or their background. This makes for greater role-playing with my players getting more involved in their characters. If something happens to a dwarf fighter (say Moradin comes to him) and he wants to become a paladin or a cleric, I would allow that without penalty.

I did come across one problem with one of players where it did not fit. He was a human barbarian and wanted a better will save so he wanted to take a level of cleric (which gives +2 will save and first level spells) instead of the feat that gives +2 will. I did not allow that since it wasn't within the spirit of his character (he was just trying to min-max)

Just my two cents

[Sir Justine]

Certainly it's a nice system, Gary. But are you really annoyed with multi-class characters? I find this one of the greatest improvements over 2º edition. Of course, sometimes the players abuse: one in my group had a fighter character and he wanted to fight with two-weapons; instead of taking the feats he wanted to take one level of ranger... (the first level of ranger is very strong, the others, however...). I said no, like the history on the post by Crumbiness. But this are exceptions. In overall I think the rules for multiclassing are good. At least with the core classes.
With prestige classes I agree with you. It's very strange (to not say ridiculous) not having a penalty. Most of the prestige, like the cavalier, have a roleplay that imply much devotion from the character. Changing from Knight of the Chalice to Thief-Acrobat to Animal Lord without any penalty? Of course the DM can prevent this with roleplaying, but I think that rules exist just to do this job. I guess I will use the "Advanced Class" rule.

[geeman]

At 11:48 PM 8/24/2002 +0200, Sir Justine wrote:

>Certainly it`s a nice system, Gary. But are you really annoyed with
>multi-class characters?

The thing I dislike most about the current multi-classing rule is the way
the penalty kicks in when class levels go out of sync with one another,
despite the actual number of extra classes, so a 2/3/2/3 character is fine
while a 2/3/3/1 character is not.

Actually, I`d probably get rid of multi-class penalties entirely if I
didn`t kind of like the favored class aspect of the system. It makes sense
that dwarves would favor fighter as a class. That depends pretty much on
the campaign, of course, and I`m starting to lean more towards just doing
away with the multi-class penalties entirely, but barring that I think this
kind of thing works a bit better.

>With prestige classes I agree with you. It`s very strange (to not say
>ridiculous) not having a penalty. Most of the prestige, like the cavalier,
>have a roleplay that imply much devotion from the character. Changing from
>Knight of the Chalice to Thief-Acrobat to Animal Lord without any penalty?
>Of course the DM can prevent this with roleplaying, but I think that rules
>exist just to do this job. I guess I will use the "Advanced Class" rule.

There are many problems IMO with prestige classes, and this multi-classing
option really only addresses one of them, but in general I like it as a
possible solution to some of the weirdnesses involved in that particular
aspect of 3e. Let me know how it works out for you.

Gary

************************************************** **************************
The Birthright Homepage: http://www.birthright.net
Birthright-l Archives: http://oracle.wizards.com/archives/birthright-l.html
To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM
with UNSUB BIRTHRIGHT-L in the body of the message.

[Sir Justine]

This monday I started a new campaign and I will use your multi class rules. I showed then to my players and we think they are better.
So, just to confirm what you said, in your system, excluding the feats you mentioned, the maximum number of classes a character can have without penalty is two plus one prestige?
As an extra, here are the favored classes I use in my Birthright campaign:
Anuiren - Cleric
Brecht - Rogue
Khinasi - Wizard
Rjurik - Ranger
Vos - Barbarian
Elf - Sorcerer
Dwarf - Fighter
Halfling - Bard

PS: Today (08/27) is my birthday! Happy birthday to me! :)

[geeman]

At 12:25 PM 8/27/2002 +0200, Sir Justine wrote:

>This monday I started a new campaign and I will use your multi class
>rules. I showed then to my players and we think they are better. So, just
>to confirm what you said, in your system, excluding the feats you
>mentioned, the maximum number of classes a character can have without
>penalty is two plus one prestige?

Yes, that`s the gist of it. The preferred class might be a prestige class
too depending on whether or not you want to allow that, so its possible for
a character to have one class plus two prestige classes without provoking a
multi-class XP penalty.

>As an extra, here are the favored classes I use in my Birthright campaign:
>Anuiren - Cleric
>Brecht - Rogue
>Khinasi - Wizard
>Rjurik - Ranger
>Vos - Barbarian
>Elf - Sorcerer
>Dwarf - Fighter
>Halfling - Bard

I kind of like preferred classes for various cultures, but for humans I
think there should be more than one. Anuireans might have cleric or
fighter, Rjurik could have ranger or druid, Khinasi could have wizard or
paladin. Something like that.

You might also want to include:

Orog - Fighter
Goblin - Rogue

>PS: Today (08/27) is my birthday! Happy birthday to me! :)

Happy BD!

Gary

************************************************** **************************
The Birthright Homepage: http://www.birthright.net
Birthright-l Archives: http://oracle.wizards.com/archives/birthright-l.html
To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM
with UNSUB BIRTHRIGHT-L in the body of the message.

[ConjurerDragon]

Hello!

Gary wrote:
...

>> As an extra, here are the favored classes I use in my Birthright
>> campaign:
>> Anuiren - Cleric
>> Brecht - Rogue
>> Khinasi - Wizard
>> Rjurik - Ranger
>> Vos - Barbarian
>> Elf - Sorcerer
>> Dwarf - Fighter
>> Halfling - Bard
>
> I kind of like preferred classes for various cultures, but for humans I
> think there should be more than one. Anuireans might have cleric or
> fighter, Rjurik could have ranger or druid, Khinasi could have wizard or
> paladin. Something like that.
> You might also want to include:
> Orog - Fighter
> Goblin - Rogue
>
>> PS: Today (08/27) is my birthday! Happy birthday to me! :)
>
> Happy BD!
> Gary

Anuirean I would say Cleric (of Haelyn) or Paladin (of Haelyn) as Haelyn
is the Patron of Anuire.
Brecht would be rather Aristrocrat (Guilder) than rogue (or both)
Rjurik Ranger or Druid
Khinasi Wizard or Aristocrat (Lord)

Goblins should be divided into their subtypes. A goblin (goblin) is more
likely to be rogue, but a goblin (hobgoblin) or goblin (bugbear)
certainly could tend to warrior.

And happy Birthday!
bye
Michael

************************************************** **************************
The Birthright Homepage: http://www.birthright.net
Birthright-l Archives: http://oracle.wizards.com/archives/birthright-l.html
To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM
with UNSUB BIRTHRIGHT-L in the body of the message.

[kgauck]

As I mentioned earlier, I use favored classes by bloodline, not culture.

Andurias-
Fighter favored class
Knowledge (Law) is a class skill, and bonus +1 to +4 based on bloodline
alignment must be non-chaotic

Reynir-
Ranger or Druid favored class
Wilderness Lore is a class skill, and bonus +1 to +4
any alignment

Brenna-
Rogue favored class
Appraise is a class skill, +1 to +4
any alignment

Basaïa-
Wizard favored class
Scry, Spellcraft, or any one Knowledge skill is a class skill, +1 to +4
any non-chaotic alignment

Masela-
Cleric is class skill
Intuit Direction is a class skill, +1 to +4
any alignment

Vorynn-
Wizard or Sorcerer favored class
Spellcraft is a class skill, +1 to +4
any alignment

Azrai-
favored class is determined by race, as PHB
Bluff is a class skill, +1 to +4
alignment is any non-good

I also include a backround class. Everyone can take a starting level as an
Aristocrat, Expert, or Rogue. I encourage wizards and clerics to consider
expert as their backround class. Characters have no penalty regarding their
backround class and may level up in them without penalty. When converting
most NPC`s from the books, I convert fighter over as 2/3`s aristocrat, and
1/3 fighter.

Kenneth Gauck
kgauck@mchsi.com

************************************************** **************************
The Birthright Homepage: http://www.birthright.net
Birthright-l Archives: http://oracle.wizards.com/archives/birthright-l.html
To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM
with UNSUB BIRTHRIGHT-L in the body of the message.