Servant of the sea

[Ariadne]

Hi there,
I would be interrested in the following information: What do you think of the Servant of the sea prestige class. It is the first of a serie of 10 deity specific prestige classes and (as I said already) originally posted on a german homepage. The prestige classes are updated and translated into english.

If you like it, I can post the other 9 (Erik is not included) on this page either. I would be glad to hear some comments...

[Temujin]

If this was an attempt to make specialty priest that are for those of the generic clergy, its not a bad try but honestly, I would prefer if they would be more similar to the specialty priests of the 2nd edition. For one, there's too many abilities and the requirements are too high. Having 9 ranks in History, for example, requires someone to be level 6. That's hard. I'd rather have prestige classes that handle priests of level 1 and up that are consistant with the rules of the 2nd edition, than ultra-specialized clergy. Once we have the basics; then making a few more specialized specialty classes for specialized members of a specific clergy. Of course, if this is an attempt to create a few very specific members of each clergy, its not a bad attempt. However I would suggest that you reduce the number of abilities, or focus them in a specific area rather than many areas related to the same faith: There should be a difference between a generic specialty priest of a faith and a specialized one, not just an improvement.

For example, abilities like Lesser Water Control(water breathing/water walking), Water Control(Solid Fog/Water Control) and Freedom of Movement might be appropriate for the generalist specialty priest of Nesirie. If the specialty class you were attempting to do was a keeper of the lore(such as those in the Ghamouran temple that watch over the Masetian relic, as seems to be the case for what you wrote up), Nesirie's Foresight, Nesirie's Knowledge, Nesirie's Divination and perhaps Nesirie's Song would be appropriate for such a prestige class, over ten levels. For such a specialized priest, the requirements you placed would seem appropriate. For a general specialty priest of Nesirie, the only prerequisite should be the ability to cast divine spells and believing in Nesirie(and perhaps a few ranks in the proficiency required by individual orders).

I hope this helps :)

[Azrai]

These classes rock .... :)

I know them already from the german-page - they are the first priest-prestige classes which came out for the 3. Edition, a long time before the FR-prestige classes were presented.

In that sense they are compatible and comparable to the official 3.Edition standard.

Such people make our Birthright game alive....

[Ariadne]

Orginally posted by Temujin

For one, there's too many abilities and the requirements are too high. Having 9 ranks in History, for example, requires someone to be level 6. That's hard.

That's the problem with 3rd edition. We tried to convert priests exactly, but we found, they are too powerfull then. To this time a 3rd edition priest of Nesirie can turn undead and has 2 domains, that's all! So we tried to make them a little bit exceptional as in 2nd edition, but this ONLY works with prestige classes! If you have ever read prestige classes in the DMG, FR setting etc. you would have sensed that no prestige class can be chosen before the character reaches a specivic level (most 6th to 9th, sometimes even 13th) and fulfills special requirements. We wanted to create the requirements so close and individualistic to every religion, as possible.

Your idea to create a prestige class for every region is not a bad, but I fear, you would loose the view over the prestige classes very fast! If you want to split this prestige class, you must create it for 5 levels, not for 10.

If you use 2nd edition, forget the prestige class and play a normal priest of Nesirie!

[A_dark]

The idea is nice. The requirements are fine. There is one problem.

There is nothing to lose when you become one. Let us take for example a fighter prestige class, like the Duelist that just popped into my head. When you opt to become one, you gain various new abilities. BUT, you cannot gain the feats that the fighter would gain, if you had advanved as pure fighter instead of a duelist. Or take the Loremaster. he gains some powers and indeed his caster levels stack, yet he no longer gains the extra feat that the mage would get, or if the character was a priest he drops from 1d8hp to 1d4, which is a significant loss.

Now, your class, offers the stackable caster levels and a whole lot of powers, without taking anything away from the priest character. On second look, it seems that it takes away the turning, limiting the turning damage, but in my opinion it is not enough compared to the really strong powers given to the character.

In other words, I cannot see anyone thinking twice before taking on this prestige class and in my opinion it should not be so. When you make a prestige class it should not be more powerful than the class from which the character originates. If you are a 10th level character with 10 levels fighter and you like the Duelist it is a dilema wether you will set aside the bonus feats that the fighter gets in order to pursue a carreer as a duelist. Likewise the mage will think twice before getting the Loremaster kit, cos he knows that it will limit his metamagic and item creation feats. The priest opting for Loremaster will lose lots of hitpoints compared to his brother who advances as a priest alone.

In your case, the priest wanting to become the Servant of Seas will not even think about not getting the prestige class because it simply offers too much compared to being a simple priest. Prestige class does not mean that it is stronger, but only that you cannot take it from first level.

I agree with you Ariadne that level 6 is not that high for a prestige class requirement. The Shadowdancer wants 10 ranks in Hide, which means 6th level.

Lastly I must say that I do not have the book on priests with their prestige classes, so i was not able to compare the Servant with priest classes but only with those in the DMG and those in the palm and sword or what's-its-name book for the fighters.

[ConjurerDragon]

Hello!

A_dark wrote:

>This post was generated by the Birthright.net message forum.
> You can view the entire thread at: http://www.birthright.net/read.php?TID=854
>...
>I agree with you Ariadne that level 6 is not that high for a prestige class requirement. The Shadowdancer wants 10 ranks in Hide, which means 6th level.
>
Wouldn´t it be 7th level? Maximum rank for a skill is level +3, or not?
bye
Michael

************************************************** **************************
The Birthright Homepage: http://www.birthright.net
Birthright-l Archives: http://oracle.wizards.com/archives/birthright-l.html
To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM
with UNSUB BIRTHRIGHT-L in the body of the message.

[kgauck]

----- Original Message -----
From: "A_dark" <brnetboard@TUARHIEVEL.ORG>
Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2002 1:35 PM


> In your case, the priest wanting to become the Servant of Seas will
> not even think about not getting the prestige class because it simply
> offers too much compared to being a simple priest. Prestige class
> does not mean that it is stronger, but only that you cannot take it
> from first level.

Actually, I think the PrC does mean that its stronger, but also tied closely
to the setting. The DMG describes them as a reward for powerful characters.
The Order of the Knights of Cuiraecen might have taken notice of Aldfrith
the fighter and offered him a chance to join the Order, and hence advance
not just as a regular fighter but according to the esoteric training and
special techniques of the order. Again, according to the DMG, "Qualifying
for a prestige class is difficult, and advancing levels in a new class is a
sacrifice, so the rewards should be substantial." That sounds to me like
its going to offer more than being a simple priest.

The Servant of the Sea reflects a slightly different concern. A setting
related priest to reflect what we know from the BoP. To be honest, I went
about this by dropping the Cleric class and converting the BoP priesthoods,
but I won`t begrudge someone from going the PrC route so that players can at
least a start a character at home. PrC`s involve less ripping the core
rules apart and re-building. If I created a world where a merchant class
dominated (let`s call it Brectür), I might create PrC`s that give Brecht
merchants a bit of an advantage. Sidhe fighter-wizard cominations might be
better than just multi-classing because elves excell at particular styles of
both. The PrC could emphise those particular styles to embrace setting, and
make Sidhe fighter-wizards a formidable force, just as the DM envisions
them.

While I think PrC`s can often be powerful, but narrow characters
(Cuiraecen`s Lightning Savant), PrC`s can sometimes be a cut above. Since I
don`t know what the whole campaign looks like, I can`t speak to balance.
Maybe every PrC is like this, or maybe all priestly PrC`s, after all its
priestly magic that won the day for the humans against what are certainly
high Sidhe hurdles. For myself, a superpowerful PrC just requires high
entrance limits.

Kenneth Gauck
kgauck@mchsi.com

************************************************** **************************
The Birthright Homepage: http://www.birthright.net
Birthright-l Archives: http://oracle.wizards.com/archives/birthright-l.html
To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM
with UNSUB BIRTHRIGHT-L in the body of the message.

[Azrai]

a_dark:
Prestige class does not mean that it is stronger, but only that you cannot take it from first level.

Take a look at the Forgotten Realms Prestige Classes. Prestige means also an improvement in abilities. Your comparism with Loremaster and Duelist makes no sense at all. These are not priest prestige classes.

Let's compare it to the Healer-Class in Defenders of Faith. In that context the servant of the sea makes perfectly sense.

Could you please explain why you voted for "remove it" ? I can't read it out of your arguments.

[Ariadne]

Originally posted by A_dark

Now, your class, offers the stackable caster levels and a whole lot of powers, without taking anything away from the priest character. On second look, it seems that it takes away the turning, limiting the turning damage, but in my opinion it is not enough compared to the really strong powers given to the character.

Sorry, but to cut a cleric of his turn undead power is the ONLY thing, you can do to limit him apart from his spellcasting power (It's the only avantage a cleric has!).

Second I have limited the prestige class too: You can only take it, if you're a cleric of Nesirie AND must have identified an item made by masetians correctly (If you don't want the prestige class in your campaign, don't let your cleric get one).

Third: As kgauck said already, this prestige class is as close as possible to the old 2nd edition version (without tearing core rules apart)! And naturally prestige classes ARE more powerfull (see FR PrC's Archmage or Hierophant for example, as well as some PrC's from the "Defenders of the Faith" )

Originally posted by kgauck

Since I don`t know what the whole campaign looks like, I can`t speak to balance. Maybe every PrC is like this, or maybe all priestly PrC`s, after all its priestly magic that won the day for the humans against what are certainly high Sidhe hurdles.

You are right, I have tried to make all prestige classes more or less equal powerfull and each PrC like it's old form (Leadership for Haelyn, Tyranny for Belinik, Ice control for Kriesha and weather/ lightning control for Cuiraécen for example).

Some more "tastes" of the prestige classes are the lawbringer (Haelyn) and the Master of Terror (Belinik).