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Thread: Magical Item Creation and RP
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08-06-2002, 10:18 AM #11
I try to create magical items (but I'm a 2nd edition character of a level to do it).
A 3rd edition character should only spend RP, if he cant spend XP (because he don't want to loose a level f.e.). Something like an alternative to XP. To must spend RP would limitate magical items not only to blooded characters, but also to regents (and not every scion IS a regent actually)! Magical items should be somehow restricted, but not so hard! You must see, a wizard/ priest must spend a feat first to create one. In a campaign not very much characters want to spend it. This restricts magical items already.May Khirdai always bless your sword and his lightning struck your enemies!
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08-11-2002, 10:44 PM #12
IMO spending XP for anything is a really bad idea. I don't really like the energy drain of undead as it should attack life force not XP.
I am not sure, but I don't think a person can loose a level from using XP according to 3E, if they can this just adds to my sentiment of it being a bad idea. RP is a much better commodity for this anyway, even better than a consitution point. I know magic is costly I just don't like how the costs are used in game terms. Anyone know of another system used in a game that proposes another idea?One law, One court, One allied people, One coin, and one tax, is what I shall bring to Cerilia.
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08-12-2002, 01:02 AM #13
----- Original Message -----
From: "Magian" <brnetboard@TUARHIEVEL.ORG>
Sent: Sunday, August 11, 2002 5:44 PM
IMO the xp cost of magic items is so low that its hardly an issue. Plus in
terms of return on investment its a great return. Take the Medallion of
Thoughts, an hand item in BR to be sure. The minimum caster level for this
item is 5th level, and the cost in xp is 480. That`s around 10% of the cost
to go from 5th to 6th. It may also make the rest of your adventuring career
10% easier. Presumably someone would spend 12,000 gp on the open market to
buy this thing. That`s nearly the sum total of wealth of a 6th level
character. I`d say that spending 6000 gp and 480 xp, and the 12 says
involved were well worth it, if you were inclined to want to read people`s
thoughts.
And yet, the xp cost does prevent characters from using their realms as
magic item factories.
I`d further say that a priest who tithes 10% of his experience in the form
of magic items is in particular favor in the temple.
Finally, the ability to substitute RP allows characters to avoid the loss of
xp, while still allowing magic item creation for non-blooded, or non-ruler
characters.
Kenneth Gauck
kgauck@mchsi.com
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08-12-2002, 01:55 AM #14
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On Mon, 2002-08-12 at 08:44, Magian wrote:
This post was generated by the Birthright.net message forum.
You can view the entire thread at: http://www.birthright.net/read.php?TID=840
Magian wrote:
IMO spending XP for anything is a really bad idea. I don`t really like the
energy drain of undead as it should attack life force not XP.
I agree. But you have to use a life force system to do so. See the
thread on vitality/wound points. In such a case the energy drain attacks
the wound point maximum itself. An example: If a character has a maximum
wound points of 10 - an energy drain from a vampire would reduce that
maximum to 8. There`s no actual wound and the "loss" can`t be healed,
the character is now permanently left with a maximum of 8 wound points.
Additionally, the character fights (until he has rested properly) as if
he has been (how do I put this? ) - "energy-drained" - as if he had been
wounded for 2 points. (All attacks etc at -2 to effectiveness/chance of
success).
I am not sure, but I don`t think a person can loose a level from using XP
according to 3E, if they can this just adds to my sentiment of it being a
bad idea. RP is a much better commodity for this anyway, even better than
a consitution point. I know magic is costly I just don`t like how the
costs are used in game terms. Anyone know of another system used in a
game that proposes another idea?
I allow magic-users to create a wand (earlier than usual). The wand
however "uses" a spell slot - similar to the helm of teleportation using
a spell slot. The wand acts as a focus for that spell slot allowing the
caster to cast it multiple times.
I can see that you could "bind" the energy/magic of a source or temple
to power a magic item in a similar way. But such would tie-up some of
the generated DP/RP of the holding.
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08-12-2002, 04:17 AM #15
>From: Kenneth Gauck <kgauck@MCHSI.COM>
>
>IMO the xp cost of magic items is so low that its hardly an issue. Plus in
>terms of return on investment its a great return. Take the Medallion of
>Thoughts, an hand item in BR to be sure. The minimum caster level for this
>item is 5th level, and the cost in xp is 480. That`s around 10% of the
>cost
>to go from 5th to 6th. It may also make the rest of your adventuring
>career
>10% easier. Presumably someone would spend 12,000 gp on the open market to
>buy this thing. That`s nearly the sum total of wealth of a 6th level
>character. I`d say that spending 6000 gp and 480 xp, and the 12 says
>involved were well worth it, if you were inclined to want to read people`s
>thoughts.
>
I make no claim that I know the 3E rules very well as I have only skimmed
over the books therefore I had no idea the cost of XP was this little.
Makes me think twice about reading it over again to make a better judgement.
However the idea of XP being used in magical item creation is completely
opposed to my ideas of gaining XP from making them as they are part of a
wizard`s trade/class ability. From what you say though it does provide for
a workable system but there is just that little hump I cannot seem to get
myself over to fully accept it.
>And yet, the xp cost does prevent characters from using their realms as
>magic item factories.
>
Yeah that is a downfall of the RP usage. IMO while playing however RP is
the most valuable resource and any spenditure of it is costly. I guess I am
a RP conservative though. Therefore as a DM anyone doing this to the point
of unbalancing the game you could bring in a new scion to oppose the overly
spendy regents who has little to defend his domain. Of course a multitude
of ideas could arise to counter this kind of "abuse" (is that a good word?)
of the system. I guess that is why I would like to know if any other system
is used in other games. John Machin did present me with some stuff from Ars
Magica that work well on another subject so I am interested in exploring
other ideas from elswhere (thinking outside the box?).
>I`d further say that a priest who tithes 10% of his experience in the form
>of magic items is in particular favor in the temple.
>
That is a good idea actually.
>Finally, the ability to substitute RP allows characters to avoid the loss
>of
>xp, while still allowing magic item creation for non-blooded, or non-ruler
>characters.
Yes, if memory serves me right I didn`t mean to come across as if I was
proposing to eliminate the XP and replace it with RP for magical items
rather use it as another option or even for certain item requisites.
When it comes to magic I prefer a mana system for casting spells so that
wizards are more like sorcerers and they are in tune with the mebhaighl and
I would like some sort of point system for creating items also but daily
regenerating mana points are of little consequece to a spell caster. But
maybe using something like a critical mana cost (similar to critical hit
rules from combat and tactics) needing more time to regenerate. Giving us
the effect that Merlin spoke about in the movie Excalibur after he conjured
the dragon`s breath. OK so I babble a lot.
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with UNSUB BIRTHRIGHT-L in the body of the message.One law, One court, One allied people, One coin, and one tax, is what I shall bring to Cerilia.
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08-12-2002, 05:06 AM #16
----- Original Message -----
From: "The Magian" <birthrightpbem@HOTMAIL.COM>
Sent: Sunday, August 11, 2002 11:04 PM
> When it comes to magic I prefer a mana system for casting spells so that
> wizards are more like sorcerers and they are in tune with the mebhaighl
How does the mana system work? I use a channeling system myself, rather
than the old memorize and forget system. I could go either way with
wizards, but clerics need to channel, IMO.
The mechanic I use can be found on this write-up of Haelyn`s priesthood.
Its in the spells section right after armor and weapons in the class
features.
http://home.mchsi.com/~kgauck/taelshore/Haelyn.htm
Kenneth Gauck
kgauck@mchsi.com
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08-12-2002, 09:09 PM #17
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Hello,
----- Original Message -----
From: "The Magian" <birthrightpbem@HOTMAIL.COM>
To: <BIRTHRIGHT-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sent: Monday, August 12, 2002 6:04 AM
Subject: Re: Magical Item Creation and RP [10#840]
> However the idea of XP being used in magical item creation is completely
> opposed to my ideas of gaining XP from making them as they are part of a
> wizard`s trade/class ability.
now in 3e, if I haven´t understood badly, crafting magic items is as
posible for a wizard or a sorcerer as for a cleric or a druid (requisite
normally is "spellcaster level", not "arcane spellcaster level").
Vicente
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08-12-2002, 09:09 PM #18
At 09:28 PM 8/12/2002 +0200, Vicente wrote:
>now in 3e, if I haven´t understood badly, crafting magic items is as
>posible for a wizard or a sorcerer as for a cleric or a druid (requisite
>normally is "spellcaster level", not "arcane spellcaster level").
Essentially. The character creating the magic item still needs to be able
to cast the spell upon which the magic item is based, so a wizard can`t
create wands of healing, for example.
Gary
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08-12-2002, 11:14 PM #19
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The thing is, wizards receive item creation (or metamgic) feats for free, so
they are more likely to have the skill to create magic items. But any
spellcaster can learn how to do this.
Actually, due to the limited sor/wiz spell lits, there are many items (like
magic armor and rings of protection) that these classes cannot make at all.
/Carl
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08-13-2002, 02:57 AM #20
----- Original Message -----
From: "Carl Cramér" <carl.cramer@HOME.SE>
Sent: Monday, August 12, 2002 5:17 PM
> The thing is, wizards receive item creation (or metamgic) feats for free,
so
> they are more likely to have the skill to create magic items. But any
> spellcaster can learn how to do this.
In my experience, divine spellcasters need to pick a kind of item creation
feat to focus on. Wizards, because of the free IC/MM feats can make more
kinds of items. Clerics are common scroll scribers, sometime potion makers,
and high level priests can make other kinds of items. Priests of Cuiraecen
probabaly like to make those weapons that shock. I imagine that Ruornil`s
clerics (and druids) make quarterstaffs with silver caps that are weapons of
disruption. Linking certain priesthoods with certain favorite weapons (a
combination of the diety`s favored weapon and favored spell elements) adds a
nifty flavor.
Avani`s spears of blinding, of distance, of spell storing
Haelyn`s swords of focus (acts as a focus for spells), of law, holy
Erik`s axes of returning (often used in pairs), of distance, of mighty
cleaving
Cuiraecen`s shock swords, keen, and thundering
Nesirie`s tridents of healing, defending, of returning
Ruornil`s quarterstaves of disruption, ghost touch, spell storing
Sera`s chaotic rapiers, of wounding, bonding (can`t be disarmed)
Laerme`s flaming shortbows, of speed, of distance
Kriesha`s maces of icy burst, unholy, dancing
Belinik`s vorpal battleaxes, of speed, bane of men
Kenneth Gauck
kgauck@mchsi.com
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