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  1. #11
    Site Moderator Ariadne's Avatar
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    I try to create magical items (but I'm a 2nd edition character of a level to do it).

    A 3rd edition character should only spend RP, if he cant spend XP (because he don't want to loose a level f.e.). Something like an alternative to XP. To must spend RP would limitate magical items not only to blooded characters, but also to regents (and not every scion IS a regent actually)! Magical items should be somehow restricted, but not so hard! You must see, a wizard/ priest must spend a feat first to create one. In a campaign not very much characters want to spend it. This restricts magical items already.
    May Khirdai always bless your sword and his lightning struck your enemies!

  2. #12
    Site Moderator Magian's Avatar
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    IMO spending XP for anything is a really bad idea. I don't really like the energy drain of undead as it should attack life force not XP.

    I am not sure, but I don't think a person can loose a level from using XP according to 3E, if they can this just adds to my sentiment of it being a bad idea. RP is a much better commodity for this anyway, even better than a consitution point. I know magic is costly I just don't like how the costs are used in game terms. Anyone know of another system used in a game that proposes another idea?
    One law, One court, One allied people, One coin, and one tax, is what I shall bring to Cerilia.

  3. #13
    Site Moderator kgauck's Avatar
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    ----- Original Message -----
    From: "Magian" <brnetboard@TUARHIEVEL.ORG>
    Sent: Sunday, August 11, 2002 5:44 PM

    IMO the xp cost of magic items is so low that its hardly an issue. Plus in
    terms of return on investment its a great return. Take the Medallion of
    Thoughts, an hand item in BR to be sure. The minimum caster level for this
    item is 5th level, and the cost in xp is 480. That`s around 10% of the cost
    to go from 5th to 6th. It may also make the rest of your adventuring career
    10% easier. Presumably someone would spend 12,000 gp on the open market to
    buy this thing. That`s nearly the sum total of wealth of a 6th level
    character. I`d say that spending 6000 gp and 480 xp, and the 12 says
    involved were well worth it, if you were inclined to want to read people`s
    thoughts.

    And yet, the xp cost does prevent characters from using their realms as
    magic item factories.

    I`d further say that a priest who tithes 10% of his experience in the form
    of magic items is in particular favor in the temple.

    Finally, the ability to substitute RP allows characters to avoid the loss of
    xp, while still allowing magic item creation for non-blooded, or non-ruler
    characters.

    Kenneth Gauck
    kgauck@mchsi.com

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  4. #14
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    On Mon, 2002-08-12 at 08:44, Magian wrote:

    This post was generated by the Birthright.net message forum.
    You can view the entire thread at: http://www.birthright.net/read.php?TID=840

    Magian wrote:
    IMO spending XP for anything is a really bad idea. I don`t really like the
    energy drain of undead as it should attack life force not XP.

    I agree. But you have to use a life force system to do so. See the
    thread on vitality/wound points. In such a case the energy drain attacks
    the wound point maximum itself. An example: If a character has a maximum
    wound points of 10 - an energy drain from a vampire would reduce that
    maximum to 8. There`s no actual wound and the "loss" can`t be healed,
    the character is now permanently left with a maximum of 8 wound points.
    Additionally, the character fights (until he has rested properly) as if
    he has been (how do I put this? ) - "energy-drained" - as if he had been
    wounded for 2 points. (All attacks etc at -2 to effectiveness/chance of
    success).


    I am not sure, but I don`t think a person can loose a level from using XP
    according to 3E, if they can this just adds to my sentiment of it being a
    bad idea. RP is a much better commodity for this anyway, even better than
    a consitution point. I know magic is costly I just don`t like how the
    costs are used in game terms. Anyone know of another system used in a
    game that proposes another idea?

    I allow magic-users to create a wand (earlier than usual). The wand
    however "uses" a spell slot - similar to the helm of teleportation using
    a spell slot. The wand acts as a focus for that spell slot allowing the
    caster to cast it multiple times.
    I can see that you could "bind" the energy/magic of a source or temple
    to power a magic item in a similar way. But such would tie-up some of
    the generated DP/RP of the holding.

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  5. #15
    Site Moderator Magian's Avatar
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    >From: Kenneth Gauck <kgauck@MCHSI.COM>
    >
    >IMO the xp cost of magic items is so low that its hardly an issue. Plus in
    >terms of return on investment its a great return. Take the Medallion of
    >Thoughts, an hand item in BR to be sure. The minimum caster level for this
    >item is 5th level, and the cost in xp is 480. That`s around 10% of the
    >cost
    >to go from 5th to 6th. It may also make the rest of your adventuring
    >career
    >10% easier. Presumably someone would spend 12,000 gp on the open market to
    >buy this thing. That`s nearly the sum total of wealth of a 6th level
    >character. I`d say that spending 6000 gp and 480 xp, and the 12 says
    >involved were well worth it, if you were inclined to want to read people`s
    >thoughts.
    >

    I make no claim that I know the 3E rules very well as I have only skimmed
    over the books therefore I had no idea the cost of XP was this little.
    Makes me think twice about reading it over again to make a better judgement.
    However the idea of XP being used in magical item creation is completely
    opposed to my ideas of gaining XP from making them as they are part of a
    wizard`s trade/class ability. From what you say though it does provide for
    a workable system but there is just that little hump I cannot seem to get
    myself over to fully accept it.

    >And yet, the xp cost does prevent characters from using their realms as
    >magic item factories.
    >

    Yeah that is a downfall of the RP usage. IMO while playing however RP is
    the most valuable resource and any spenditure of it is costly. I guess I am
    a RP conservative though. Therefore as a DM anyone doing this to the point
    of unbalancing the game you could bring in a new scion to oppose the overly
    spendy regents who has little to defend his domain. Of course a multitude
    of ideas could arise to counter this kind of "abuse" (is that a good word?)
    of the system. I guess that is why I would like to know if any other system
    is used in other games. John Machin did present me with some stuff from Ars
    Magica that work well on another subject so I am interested in exploring
    other ideas from elswhere (thinking outside the box?).

    >I`d further say that a priest who tithes 10% of his experience in the form
    >of magic items is in particular favor in the temple.
    >

    That is a good idea actually.

    >Finally, the ability to substitute RP allows characters to avoid the loss
    >of
    >xp, while still allowing magic item creation for non-blooded, or non-ruler
    >characters.

    Yes, if memory serves me right I didn`t mean to come across as if I was
    proposing to eliminate the XP and replace it with RP for magical items
    rather use it as another option or even for certain item requisites.

    When it comes to magic I prefer a mana system for casting spells so that
    wizards are more like sorcerers and they are in tune with the mebhaighl and
    I would like some sort of point system for creating items also but daily
    regenerating mana points are of little consequece to a spell caster. But
    maybe using something like a critical mana cost (similar to critical hit
    rules from combat and tactics) needing more time to regenerate. Giving us
    the effect that Merlin spoke about in the movie Excalibur after he conjured
    the dragon`s breath. OK so I babble a lot.


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  6. #16
    Site Moderator kgauck's Avatar
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    ----- Original Message -----
    From: "The Magian" <birthrightpbem@HOTMAIL.COM>
    Sent: Sunday, August 11, 2002 11:04 PM


    > When it comes to magic I prefer a mana system for casting spells so that
    > wizards are more like sorcerers and they are in tune with the mebhaighl

    How does the mana system work? I use a channeling system myself, rather
    than the old memorize and forget system. I could go either way with
    wizards, but clerics need to channel, IMO.

    The mechanic I use can be found on this write-up of Haelyn`s priesthood.
    Its in the spells section right after armor and weapons in the class
    features.
    http://home.mchsi.com/~kgauck/taelshore/Haelyn.htm

    Kenneth Gauck
    kgauck@mchsi.com

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  7. #17
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    Hello,

    ----- Original Message -----
    From: "The Magian" <birthrightpbem@HOTMAIL.COM>
    To: <BIRTHRIGHT-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
    Sent: Monday, August 12, 2002 6:04 AM
    Subject: Re: Magical Item Creation and RP [10#840]

    > However the idea of XP being used in magical item creation is completely
    > opposed to my ideas of gaining XP from making them as they are part of a
    > wizard`s trade/class ability.

    now in 3e, if I haven´t understood badly, crafting magic items is as
    posible for a wizard or a sorcerer as for a cleric or a druid (requisite
    normally is "spellcaster level", not "arcane spellcaster level").

    Vicente

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  8. #18
    Site Moderator geeman's Avatar
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    At 09:28 PM 8/12/2002 +0200, Vicente wrote:

    >now in 3e, if I haven´t understood badly, crafting magic items is as
    >posible for a wizard or a sorcerer as for a cleric or a druid (requisite
    >normally is "spellcaster level", not "arcane spellcaster level").

    Essentially. The character creating the magic item still needs to be able
    to cast the spell upon which the magic item is based, so a wizard can`t
    create wands of healing, for example.

    Gary

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  9. #19
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    The thing is, wizards receive item creation (or metamgic) feats for free, so
    they are more likely to have the skill to create magic items. But any
    spellcaster can learn how to do this.

    Actually, due to the limited sor/wiz spell lits, there are many items (like
    magic armor and rings of protection) that these classes cannot make at all.

    /Carl

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  10. #20
    Site Moderator kgauck's Avatar
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    ----- Original Message -----
    From: "Carl Cramér" <carl.cramer@HOME.SE>
    Sent: Monday, August 12, 2002 5:17 PM


    > The thing is, wizards receive item creation (or metamgic) feats for free,
    so
    > they are more likely to have the skill to create magic items. But any
    > spellcaster can learn how to do this.

    In my experience, divine spellcasters need to pick a kind of item creation
    feat to focus on. Wizards, because of the free IC/MM feats can make more
    kinds of items. Clerics are common scroll scribers, sometime potion makers,
    and high level priests can make other kinds of items. Priests of Cuiraecen
    probabaly like to make those weapons that shock. I imagine that Ruornil`s
    clerics (and druids) make quarterstaffs with silver caps that are weapons of
    disruption. Linking certain priesthoods with certain favorite weapons (a
    combination of the diety`s favored weapon and favored spell elements) adds a
    nifty flavor.

    Avani`s spears of blinding, of distance, of spell storing
    Haelyn`s swords of focus (acts as a focus for spells), of law, holy
    Erik`s axes of returning (often used in pairs), of distance, of mighty
    cleaving
    Cuiraecen`s shock swords, keen, and thundering
    Nesirie`s tridents of healing, defending, of returning
    Ruornil`s quarterstaves of disruption, ghost touch, spell storing
    Sera`s chaotic rapiers, of wounding, bonding (can`t be disarmed)
    Laerme`s flaming shortbows, of speed, of distance
    Kriesha`s maces of icy burst, unholy, dancing
    Belinik`s vorpal battleaxes, of speed, bane of men

    Kenneth Gauck
    kgauck@mchsi.com

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