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  1. #11
    Site Moderator Magian's Avatar
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    Alright, A_dark

    I read the Spectral Scion the first time you mentioned it, to your credit. This did aid me in my original post of the thread to reconstitute my approach to this topic. I understand that energy drain and bloodline drain are separate powers. I also agree that they are as I posted earlier after the quotation from Azrai about this. But if it makes you feel better to post the explanation then good, perhaps now we can move on to what could be, and not further dwell on what is not. (according to printed materials)

    Whether you agree or not that undead can have bloodlines, the Magian is undead, the Vampire is undead (I don't think he is thus I proposed he have some transformation take place or we could just ignore the undead altogether), or whether the bloodline drain/theft which is similar in reflection to that of energy drain or vampiric regeneration I have decided as a DM in my campaign to consider these options for the above mentioned characters and creatures.

    With this, I submit my planned ideas to this message board for possible ideas on how to regulate them in game rules so that they may be conducted in a balanced system.

    My questions are directly:

    If I was to give the Magian bloodline drain ability and allow him to gain bloodline strength points from this how would you suggest it to be done?

    If I was to give the Magian's Riders bloodline drain ability and allow them to gain bloodline strength points from this how would you suggest it to be done?

    If I was to have something happen to the Vampire and he is transformed to an undead vampire similar to that of the classical or more familar type of vampire associated with D&D and him having his already instituted bloodline drain ability how would you set up a system for him to start creating a clan of vampires spreading his kind across the lands?
    One law, One court, One allied people, One coin, and one tax, is what I shall bring to Cerilia.

  2. #12
    Site Moderator Ariadne's Avatar
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    Orginally posted by blitzmacher

    I know the Vampire drains bloodline strength. He bit me once...
    I got better.
    Oh, there is something around with keeping fingers away from an awnsheglien...
    May Khirdai always bless your sword and his lightning struck your enemies!

  3. #13
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    If you really want to give the Magian a blood draining ability (dunno why you would want to make him so much more powerful tho) I suggest that with each hit he drains 1d4 points, unless the victim saves vs Death.

    For the Riders, 1point per hit and again give a save.

    Or perhaps 1d6 and 1d4 respectively, depending on how much more powerful you want to make him.

    Blooded Vampires, should drain a specific amount of bloodpoints and be satiated. Meaning that they might have to kill 2 or three people before they are satiated, or meaning that they might not kill and individual. The individual not killed would turn into a vampire, while those that are drained completely are killed. Depending on where you set the satiation (is there such a word?) level, you basically define how many bloodpoints one should have to become a blooded vampire. Eg. A BV drains 20BPs before being satiated. A character with 15BPs will die if he is drained, a character with 25BPs will become a blooded vampire.

    You can choose instead that those that I said that die, do not die, but instead, become natural vampires.

    Also, I would not give the draining bloodpoints attack to all vampires but only to the already blooded ones.

    Blooded vampires, would gain only 1-2 BPs, just like normal bloodtheft, and the rest would be destroyed.

    The Vampire, if you choose to make adjustments, I would say that he still acts like a tighmaevril in regards to what BPs he adds to his total, and he should have a higher saturation limit. meaning if Vlad the Vampire needs 20BPs, Kalt, would need 40. It would be perhaps harder for him to be satiated, so I am not sure if this is a good idea.

    What you also have to consider is what happens when they kill normal people. In that case, I would say that if you use the 20BPs, they would gain the equivalent of this amount of blood from 2-3 unblooded victims.

    Then there are combinations....

    I feel it is harder than it is worth it....

  4. #14
    Site Moderator Magian's Avatar
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    Thanks for your in depth system on the vampires. It does seem more trouble than its worth according to all that kind of tracking.

    After thinking about it, the Magian having a bloodline drain ability does make it too easy for him. Perhaps some sort of spell would work better for him along those lines.

    On the vampire, since he is not considered undead according to the Blood Enemies description perhaps as a suggestion if he wanted to create another like himself he would have to sacrifice a portion of his bloodline strength in order to do so. He can replenish it if he wants, but the problem with him doing this without the undead state is the lack of control over the "vamp spawn".

    Anyway just a few more ideas that came to mind since yesterday.
    One law, One court, One allied people, One coin, and one tax, is what I shall bring to Cerilia.

  5. #15
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    A spell for the magian sounds much much better :) He already has the Bloodline corruption or what it's called :)

    Yes, make a spell for him, a ring even, he can afford to make any magical items he wants :P

    As for your Vampire idea, it is really cool. I don't really know how Kalt would have control of his children, but perhaps he binds them through some sort of vassalage. To invest a portion of his blood to them, means that he has to perform a very special ceremony, that could perhaps create a bond between the two that cannot be broken. Sounds good to me :)

    You could perhaps use a similar binding idea to the idea of the Oath, though naturally what oath the spawn would give to Kalt, would not be even close to the Oath to Ruornil, but it is still an idea, you might want to consider.

    One final note, is that the spawn should not have a tighmavril bite, as we discussed (just reminding that note) and you should also figure out a way to prevent the spawn from having more bloodpoints than Kalt. It would be something really hard, but if the Spawn does nothing but feed.... well it could be done.

    A final note, you have to definea time limit for these draining attacks. There are spells (restore bloodline) that can restore those Bloodpoints. What happens then?

    Would the Vampire that loses his BPs know why he lost them and who took them? Would the BPs be restored regardless of the time passed after the spell was cast?

    I would say no to the first and no to the second. A time frame of one or 2 weeks seems to be fair for both the victim and the vampire. Then again, if the vampire bites you and sucks you, you die.... so there is not much point in this, is there? :)

  6. #16
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    Without pissing anyone off, I would ask how an undead creature is blooded if at death you lose your bloodline and therefore become unblooded.

    Perhaps they become reblooded because someone vested them with their bloodline. This would be REALLY rare.

    As for the THE VAMPIRE AND MAGIAN. I am not so sure they are undead. I think they are living creatures with all the qualities of being undead due to the way the curse of the Azrai has warped their bodies. Thus they both can be blooded despite the rules.

    HOWEVER LET ME STATE IF YOU WANT TO DO IT DIFFERENTLY GO RIGHT AHEAD. I AM NOT A RULES LAWYER LIKE SOME PEOPLE NOT TO MENTION ANY NAMES.
    Lord Eldred
    High Councilor of the
    United Provinces of Cerilia
    "May Haelyn bring justice to your realm"

  7. #17
    Site Moderator geeman's Avatar
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    At 06:54 AM 8/1/2002 +0200, Lord Eldred wrote:

    >I would ask how an undead creature is blooded if at death you lose your
    >bloodline and therefore become unblooded.
    >
    >Perhaps they become reblooded because someone vested them with their
    >bloodline. This would be REALLY rare.
    >
    >As for the THE VAMPIRE AND MAGIAN. I am not so sure they are undead. I
    >think they are living creatures with all the qualities of being undead due
    >to the way the curse of the Azrai has warped their bodies. Thus they both
    >can be blooded despite the rules.

    I agree that the Vampire or the Magian are not undead in the traditional
    D&D sense. They are awnsheghlien whose bloodform has taken on a path that
    mimics undead creatures. In the same way that the Spider isn`t a spider,
    and the Gorgon isn`t a gorgon, the Vampire isn`t a vampire. In the case of
    the Magian, however, there is the distinct possibility that s/he/it is an
    extraplanar or at least extra-continental arrival to Cerilia who got a
    bloodline by stealing it, or otherwise using magics (like the Chimaera) to
    get one. The Magian could be a lich. One does lose one`s bloodline upon
    death, but the Magian could have died, become undead and then gained a
    bloodline. The Magian could easily be that really rare case of a blooded
    character who isn`t born with that bloodline.

    Gary

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  8. #18
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    OK Gary, How did he steal the bloodline. Unblooded can not commit blood theft. Someone would have had to vested him with a bloodline. Who would do that and why?
    Lord Eldred
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    United Provinces of Cerilia
    "May Haelyn bring justice to your realm"

  9. #19
    Site Moderator Ariadne's Avatar
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    Why a commoner can't commit bloodtheft? This does mean, no commoner can EVER get blooded. Why a commoner, who kills an awnshegh, become then one?
    May Khirdai always bless your sword and his lightning struck your enemies!

  10. #20
    Site Moderator geeman's Avatar
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    At 01:35 PM 8/1/2002 +0200, Lord Eldred wrote:

    > OK Gary, How did he steal the bloodline. Unblooded can not commit blood
    > theft. Someone would have had to vested him with a bloodline. Who would
    > do that and why?

    Well, first of all, I don`t think he did steal his bloodline. I go with a
    version of the Magian as a "typical" awnsheghlien, corrupted by his
    bloodline into the form that somehow represents his personal/spiritual
    image, just like all the others. It hasn`t really come up IMC that I need
    to have more background material on the Magian, so I haven`t ruled as to
    his specific origin, and if it does I`ll probably go with the simplest
    interpretation. There are several possible origins for the Magian as a
    blooded lich, however, including such things as:

    1. It may not be absolutely necessary to have a bloodline in order to
    commit bloodtheft. There are several examples of awnsheghlien who gained
    their bloodline by committing an act of bloodtheft. The Wolf and the Boar,
    for instance, gained a bloodline after an act of bloodtheft, or it is
    speculated that some similar event caused their corruption. I would
    suggest that has something to do with the nature of Azrai`s bloodline,
    since those who`ve been described as having gained their bloodline by
    bloodtheft seem to have Azrai`s derivation.

    2. The Magian may be one of the last members of the Lost. (Maybe he`s the
    Last Long-lived Lost Left?) The Lost gained some sort of bloodline like
    power from Azrai and the ability to cast true magic. We have very little
    information on what specific powers were gained by being one of the Lost,
    but since it replicates the ability to cast true magic the same way a
    bloodline does, it may also allow one to commit bloodtheft.

    3. He might have been at Deismaar. The Magian could have gained his
    bloodline _after_ having transformed into a lich and attended the
    battle. The Magian was unknown on Cerilia until recently, but that just
    means that he wasn`t around as The Magian. He could have existed for
    centuries, he might have left the continent immediately after the battle
    and travelled Aebrynis, he could have been trapped somehow by the energies
    released at the battle and only recently freed himself, or he might simply
    have been laying low, gathering his strength and preparing for the right
    time to make his appearance on the scene in Cerilia. Granted, it would
    seem strange not to note the appearance of a lich at Deismaar, but there
    were some pretty powerful characters there, not to mention a few gods and
    dragons, so the Magian`s presence might not figure too highly on the
    billing. He may not even have been there as a combatant, but as an
    observer trying to learn as much as possible about the nature of
    divinity--of interest to a lich.

    4. The Land`s Choice. Why must the Land`s Choice always be
    benevolent? Sometimes Cerilia (not to mention the DM) needs a dark
    overlord to thin out the population and act as a foil to youthful
    adventurers. Who better than a vastly powerful lich? "You speak of the
    one prophesied to bring balance to mebhaighl? You think it is this... lich?"

    5. The Magian is also known to have done extensive research into the nature
    of bloodlines itself. He`s created a spell that can corrupt the bloodline
    of another character, so it`s possible that he`s also come up with a means
    of stealing the bloodline of another character. Danita Kusor, the
    Chimaera, is/was a much less powerful wizard than the Magian (W13 compared
    to W20) but she managed to gain her bloodline after being soaked in the
    same alchemical fluids she used to create the Binman--who also gained a
    bloodline--after slaying the Iron Troll.

    6. He could have gotten his bloodline by investiture. That doesn`t mean he
    was necessarily someone`s heir (though that too is a possible explanation)
    since he could have used his powerful magics to charm/enslave someone with
    a bloodline and then got a priest (by coercion or he might have just found
    an evil priest) to perform an Investiture to transfer his victim`s
    bloodline. This person need not necessarily have been of Azrai`s
    derivation, since one of the spells the Magian has access is to switch a
    bloodline derivation to Azrai. Maybe the first person that spell was used
    on was the Magian himself...

    I`m sure there are other possibilities, and there are combinations of the
    above that could be used to explain his bloodline.

    Gary

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