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  1. #1
    Site Moderator kgauck's Avatar
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    Two-Weapon Fighting Style:
    The benifits of this style apply only to the ranger who is wearing light
    armor or no armor and uses two weapons. A ranger gains the feats
    Ambidexterity and Two-Weapon Fighting. This ability does not apply when
    using a double-headed weapon (such as a quarterstaff). A ranger with a BAB
    of at least +9 is considered to elibale for the feat Improved Two-Weapon
    Fighting regardless of the standard prerequisites. Improved Two-Weapon
    fighting remains limited to light or no armor.

    Ranged Fighting Style:
    A ranger gains point blank shot as a bonus feat. A ranger selects a primary
    weapon and gets the Far Shot feat with that weapon. A ranger with a BAB of
    at least +9 is considered to be eligable for the feat Shot on the Run
    regardless of the standard prerequisites. Shot on the Run would be limited
    in use to the primary weapon.

    Great Weapon Style:
    A ranger of this style uses a two-handed weapon other than a pole arm to do
    great damage their opponants. This benifits of this style are limited to
    weapons one size catagory larger than the ranger that are neither reach
    weapons nor double weapons. The ranger gains the feat Power Attack
    regardless of Strength, and none of the feats which follow Power attack are
    limted by Strength. The ranger substitutes technique for raw power. The
    ranger also gets the Smite power, the supernatural ability to make a single
    melee attack against a Favored Enemy with a +4 attack bonus and a damage
    bonus equal to ther ranger`s class level as well as the Favored Enemy bonus.
    The ranger must declare the smite ability before making the attack. It is
    usable once per day. A ranger with a BAB of at least +12 is considered to be
    eligable for the feat Knock-Down [as detailed in Sword and Fist]
    irregardless of other prerequisites.

    Reach Fighting Style:
    Some creatures in the wilds are just too dangerous to get near. Rangers
    oppose them with weapons with reach. The following abilities apply only when
    wielding a weapon with reach. Rangers gain the feats Set Spear and Hold the
    Line. A ranger knows how to set a weapon with reach to stop a charging mount
    or a ride-by attack. A weapon with reach set to recieve a charge does double
    damage. Such a weapon can be used to attack either the rider or the mount.
    The ranger is also trained in defensive techniques against opponants who
    seek to bypass the area they threaten. Rangers may make an attack of
    opportunity against any opponant who enters an area they threaten, whether
    they only take a five foot step, move normally, or charge. A 9th level
    ranger gains a +3 modifier when using a pole arm for trip or or disarm
    attacks.

    Kenneth Gauck
    kgauck@mchsi.com

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  2. #2
    Site Moderator geeman's Avatar
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    Rather than give rangers variations of the fighting feats at 1st level
    (which was something of an ill-considered translation from 2e IMO that
    belongs better with a Duelist class than with the ranger) I think it makes
    more sense to have them focus on wilderness skills and abilities. Instead
    of Two-Weapon Fighting/Ambidexterity or some other combination of fighting
    feats, they should have class abilities that improve their wilderness lore
    abilities (which also aids their free Track feat) an animal companion, the
    equivalent of Skill Focus or Skill Emphasis on Knowledge, Nature; Handle
    Animal or Animal Empathy. Things that emphasize their role as outdoorsmen
    rather than fighting machines. To represent outdoorsmen with even greater
    fighting abilities should be done by multi-classing with the fighter rather
    than souping up the ranger.

    G

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  3. #3
    Site Moderator kgauck's Avatar
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    One of the things I strive for in class design is to avoid too much overlap
    between existing classes. Druids have Animal Companionship as a feat, so I
    wouldn`t want that for rangers, since it 1) tends to copy another class and
    2) makes ranger/druid a less appealing option. Rangers already have access
    to the Animal Friendship spell, so can have companions on that basis
    already. Finally, there is specific mention of the animal cohort option
    under the Leadership feat. I don`t see this as being a weak point in the
    ranger.

    They can already take feats to enhance their outdoorsy power, as if their
    spells weren`t enough already. Why add more feats?

    The fighting styles are already built into the ranger class as its written,
    these are not additions, just elaborations. The two-weapon style is exactly
    out of the book. The others are meant to be no more powerful than the
    two-weapon style, so I`m not sure there is a souping up at work here.

    What are you suggesting we substitute for combat features like the ones
    identified?

    Kenneth Gauck
    kgauck@mchsi.com

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  4. #4
    Senior Member Trithemius's Avatar
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    <snip! - Kenneth`s Ranger Styles>

    I think that it`s a bit mean to bar Rangers from using staves and other
    double-headed weapons. Ranger-Priests of Ruornil are sure going to be
    miffed.

    --
    John Machin
    (trithemius@paradise.net.nz)
    -----------------------------------
    "Nothing is more beautiful than to know the All."
    Athanasius Kircher, Ars Magna Sciendi.

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    John 'Trithemius' Machin
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    "Power performs the Miracle." - Johannes Trithemius

  5. #5
    Site Moderator kgauck's Avatar
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    ----- Original Message -----
    From: "John Machin" <trithemius@PARADISE.NET.NZ>
    Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2002 6:22 PM

    > <snip! - Kenneth`s Ranger Styles>
    >
    > I think that it`s a bit mean to bar Rangers from using staves and other
    > double-headed weapons. Ranger-Priests of Ruornil are sure going to be
    > miffed.

    I have a single feat that allows using staves. I would consider changes
    based on a different character concept, like a Ruornil worshiping ranger.
    I`d swap out the concept below for two-weapons. I like flexibility and
    modular parts.

    Master of the Staff [General]
    You are skiled at using the quarterstaff as a double-headed weapon.
    Prerequisites: Rjurik, Cleric or Druid of Erik, Base attack bonus +2 or
    higher
    Benefit: When wearing light armor or no armor, you can fight with a
    quarterstaff as if you had the feats Ambidexterity and Two-Weapon Fighting.
    When your BAB is +9 or greater, you can choose to purchase the Improved
    Two-Weapon Fighting feat even if you do not have the other prerequisites for
    the feat.

    Kenneth Gauck
    kgauck@mchsi.com

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  6. #6
    Senior Member Trithemius's Avatar
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    Kenneth:
    > I have a single feat that allows using staves. I would
    > consider changes based on a different character concept, like
    > a Ruornil worshiping ranger. I`d swap out the concept below
    > for two-weapons. I like flexibility and modular parts.
    >
    > Master of the Staff [General]
    > You are skiled at using the quarterstaff as a double-headed weapon.
    > Prerequisites: Rjurik, Cleric or Druid of Erik, Base attack
    > bonus +2 or higher
    > Benefit: When wearing light armor or no armor, you can fight
    > with a quarterstaff as if you had the feats Ambidexterity and
    > Two-Weapon Fighting. When your BAB is +9 or greater, you can
    > choose to purchase the Improved Two-Weapon Fighting feat even
    > if you do not have the other prerequisites for the feat.

    Perhaps it could also be extended to priests and druids of Ruornil. It
    seems a bit exclusive currently (which is probably the idea).

    --
    John Machin
    (trithemius@paradise.net.nz)
    -----------------------------------
    "Nothing is more beautiful than to know the All."
    Athanasius Kircher, Ars Magna Sciendi.

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    "Power performs the Miracle." - Johannes Trithemius

  7. #7
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    In my campaign I removed the ranger ability to wield two weapons as if they had the Ambidexterity and Two weapon-style feats while they wore light or no armor and just gave them a bonus feat at first level instead.

    I did not like the idea of EVERY ranger being a two weapon fighter. Now I have rangers that only use ranged, and some that chose other options like the ones described above. All in all it gave the rangers a lot more freedom to customize their character and their fighting style the way they envisioned it and my campaign is the better for it.

    I have never found anything which explained why every ranger learned that particular fighting style. If anyone else knows of any reference that explains it, I would be interested.

  8. #8
    Site Moderator geeman's Avatar
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    Kenneth Gauck wrote:

    >One of the things I strive for in class design is to avoid too much
    >overlap between existing classes. Druids have Animal Companionship as a
    >feat, so I wouldn`t want that for rangers, since it 1) tends to copy
    >another class and 2) makes ranger/druid a less appealing option. Rangers
    >already have access to the Animal Friendship spell, so can have companions
    >on that basis already. Finally, there is specific mention of the animal
    >cohort option under the Leadership feat. I don`t see this as being a weak
    >point in the ranger.

    Adding feat combinations that are essentially those available as fighter
    bonus feats seems like it overlaps with the fighter class to me. Also,
    since they already get access to the Animal Friendship spell, as you point
    out, gifting them with a companion is a fairly small boon. It`s mostly for
    show since it`s hard to picture a woodland-based character so lame as to be
    unable to find animals to befriend, but it`s something that would make
    sense to include in the character class.

    >They can already take feats to enhance their outdoorsy power, as if their
    >spells weren`t enough already. Why add more feats?
    >
    >The fighting styles are already built into the ranger class as its
    >written, these are not additions, just elaborations. The two-weapon style
    >is exactly out of the book. The others are meant to be no more powerful
    >than the two-weapon style, so I`m not sure there is a souping up at work here.

    Have you seen the alternate ranger class that Monte Cook wrote up? The
    salient points are:

    1. No Ambidexterity/Two Weapon Fighting at 1st level.
    2. No restrictions on armor (other than standard armor check penalties.)
    3. 6 skill points instead of 4.
    4. A good Reflex save progression in addition to the good Fort save
    progression.
    5. A bonus feat at 1st level and another every 3 levels thereafter (4th,
    7th, 10th, etc.)
    6. Here`s the weird one: d8 hit dice.

    Everything else (spells, class skills, favored enemy) remains the same. The
    ranger`s spell list looks about the same, but he`s got some new ranger
    spells written up. Rangers still get Track as a bonus feat at 1st level,
    and there`s a list of available feats for the class much like the
    fighter`s. He added a couple of new feats; Favored Enemy Strike and Favored
    Enemy Critical Strike. The first does +1d6 damage on any strike against a
    favored enemy, handled like sneak attack damage. The second does +1d10
    damage when you make a critical hit on a favored enemy. Neither feat
    specifies whether or not you must choose one of your favored enemies upon
    which the feat will function (rangers can have up to 5 at 5th level) so I
    guess that means it applies to all of the character`s favored enemies.

    He apparently went to the d8 HD because he felt he`d powered up the class
    enough to justify scaling back a bit, and as an homage to the 1e version of
    the ranger (an rather oblique homage, IMO, since the 1e ranger got 2d8 HD
    at 1st level....)

    I think I`m going to go with a version of the ranger like that one, except
    I`m going to knock his Reflex save down to medium, his HD back up to d10
    and his skill points/class skills will be based on whatever I think
    appropriate using my own version of the skills.

    >What are you suggesting we substitute for combat features like the ones
    >identified?

    I listed a few possibilities; an animal companion, the equivalent of Skill
    Focus or Skill Emphasis on Knowledge, Nature; Handle Animal or Animal
    Empathy. Feats and class abilities are much the same in this regard, so
    including such feats in the list of bonus feats for rangers would be an
    easy way of including them, or one could make them class abilities (which
    would give the ranger the option of taking Skill Emphasis in addition to
    the class ability for an even greater bonus.) There could also be
    additional feats possible based on the Favored Enemy like those that Monte
    Cook presented. There are several ranger-esque feats in Masters of the
    Wild that would be apt for that list. Crafting snares and traps seems like
    an apt skill for rangers to have, as might even greater skill at riding,
    climbing, swimming, or jumping than other classes. Having such options
    available would make for even greater variation in character concepts than
    alternate fighting styles which can also be replicated by giving the
    additional bonus feats.

    Monte Cook also presented much better versions of the sorcerer and the bard
    in the Book of Eldritch Might II. At least, I think they`re much better
    versions because they address issues I`ve been complaining about since I
    got my hands on 3e....

    Gary

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  9. #9
    Site Moderator kgauck's Avatar
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    Bonus feats sounds as much like the fighter as fighting styles do. I like
    the vision of the ranger as a sub-class of fighter, though. A woodland
    warrior, not just a woodsman. If I just wanted a woodsman, I`d build him
    off of the Expert.

    Fiddling with classes is as natural to gaming as rolling dice, so I say go
    forward with any class tinkering which you feel enhances the class for your
    game. Be advised I`m doing the same here. My feeling is just that the
    ranger as written is a fine class. Adding the option to swap out one
    fighting style for alternate styles of similar power suits me just fine.

    As I mentioned above, I can certainly envision a non-druidical nature guy
    class. The Sidhe might have such a class. I just don`t see the need to
    ditch the existing ranger in order to include him.

    Kenneth Gauck
    kgauck@mchsi.com

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  10. #10
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    << In my campaign I removed the ranger ability to wield two weapons as if
    they had the Ambidexterity and Two weapon-style feats while they wore light
    or no armor and just gave them a bonus feat at first level instead.
    >>

    How nice - I`ve done exactly that, as well. :)
    Of course, I`ve changed a lot more about the Ranger class, but that was
    because I also don`t like the whole favored enemy thing.


    << I did not like the idea of EVERY ranger being a two weapon fighter. Now I
    have rangers that only use ranged, and some that chose other options like
    the ones described above. All in all it gave the rangers a lot more freedom
    to customize their character and their fighting style the way they
    envisioned it and my campaign is the better for it.
    >>

    Hear hear.
    I`ve done something similar with thieves, too. I`ve removed their Trap
    ability at first level. Instead, they get a bonus feat at first level, and
    Trap is an exclusive Rogue feat (just like Weapon Specialization is an
    exclusive Fighter feat, for example). Works great.


    << I have never found anything which explained why ever ranger learned that
    particular fighting style. If anyone else knows of any reference that
    explains it, I would be interested.
    >>

    I have read the explanation somewhere. On Monte Cook`s homepage maybe? Or
    perhaps it was somewhere in a FAQ on the official D&D page. Don`t recall.


    - the Falcon


    ------------------------------------------

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    I won`t let bugbears break our hearts
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    I do"
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