"Masterwork" animals.

[geeman]

There`s been some discussion about mounts around here and it occurred to me
the other day that warhorses are basically "created" by characters using
the Handle Animal skill to train them, which works kind of like the craft
skill. At the very least, the skills are similar in that they both turn
out a product and that product is produced after days or weeks of effort
upon the skilled character. So... why not correlate the concepts a bit and
have a "masterwork" (and "masterpiece" for those who use that standard)
equivalent for animal trainers who spend extra time and effort training
mounts or other creatures?

In 2e there was some information about special characteristics for mounts,
and in general I was thinking that MW animals would have similar types of
abilities. Is there any additional things you guys think training animals
should be able to instill, or just things you do with animals IYCs?

Gary

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[kgauck]

----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary" <geeman@SOFTHOME.NET>
Sent: Friday, June 28, 2002 7:50 AM


> Is there any additional things you guys think training animals
> should be able to instill, or just things you do with animals IYCs?

I was going along the lines of such animals having feats, which are the
result of training. Bonuses are +1 or +2.

bonus to ride checks to avoid dismount
bonus to ride checks to avoid damage to your hourse per Mounted Combat
bonus to ride checks outside of combat
bonus to endurance checks
Alertness Feat (take this horse hunting)
+5 ft speed
bonus to Animal Handling checks
bonus to Animal Empathy checks

greater bonuses under more narrow conditions
+4 to ride checks to avoid damage (per Mounted Combat) as the result of
emplaced pole arms
+2 to ride checks to avoid being dismounted by a lance
+4 to Endurance checks

Jonathan Doe added the following list:
Well Bred Mounts
1. +2 to saves vs. mind-affecting spells and powers
2. +4 to fear saves
3. Treated as 3 HD higher for spell resistance purposes
4. +1 HD
5. +2 Str or +2 Con
6. +5 speed
7. +2 natural armor
8. +4 to spot and or listen checks
9. +4 to hide and/or move silent checks
10. Resistance to one type of energy (10)
11. Not slowed by pulling normal-sized chart
12. +8 to balance checks or jump checks
13. Breeds true
14. Able to use Aid Shugenja (empower spell cast on self) 1/Day
15. +2 to dex

Kenneth Gauck
kgauck@mchsi.com

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[geeman]

At 08:34 AM 6/28/2002 -0500, Kenneth Gauck wrote:

> > Is there any additional things you guys think training animals
> > should be able to instill, or just things you do with animals IYCs?
>
>I was going along the lines of such animals having feats, which are the
>result of training. Bonuses are +1 or +2.

Cool. Thanks for the suggestions. A few questions:

How long should it take to accomplish this type of additional training?

What kinds of requirements should there be for such training?" That is,
not _any_ horse should be able to trained to be more alert. Should the
types of training that an animal can "take" be reliant upon a random roll
on the part of the DM, or should the player get to pick?

How much training can one animal take? There`s some guidelines for this
sort of thing in various spells, but just for the sake of differentiating
spells and mundane skills I think there should be a difference.

How much does having additional training increase the value of an
animal? This might depend, of course, on the types of training involved,
but as a general guideline I mean.

Gary

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[kgauck]

----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary" <geeman@SOFTHOME.NET>
Sent: Friday, June 28, 2002 7:47 PM


> How long should it take to accomplish this type of additional training?

Teaching an animal tasks as well as unusual tasks take 2 months. So I would
either stick with 2 months, or bump it up to 3 months. In any event I would
keep it measured in months for BR realm turn accounting.

> What kinds of requirements should there be for such training?" That is,
> not _any_ horse should be able to trained to be more alert. Should the
> types of training that an animal can "take" be reliant upon a random roll
> on the part of the DM, or should the player get to pick?

Depends on why the horse is being considered. If a player wants a specific
kind of horse, I`d figure out how long he`d need to search. I`d say 1-2
months if he`s going stable to stable looking for a specific exceptional
horse. 2-4 months in Brectur (not a horse breeding people), and a single
month in areas, like Coeranys, identified as being good with horses. If the
player sought out a guilder or guild master who dealt in horse trading, I`d
either go with a Gather Information check to know the immediate location of
such a horse, or I`d rule that the NPC knew the information and revealed it.
If the player is not looking for a specific horse, but just horse trading in
general, and I wanted to place a horse of quality in the market, I`d give
him a DC 10 to recognize that the animal was better than normal, and a DC 20
to recognize that the horse could be trained with a feat. As to what kind of
training the animal was capable of, I`d probabaly pick myself. Players can
look for what they want, or they can stumble upon what I have placed. I
don`t rely on random tables for stuff like this. I may use them, but if the
result doesn`t interest me, I re-roll or select one. I do the same thing
with NPC blood powers.

> How much training can one animal take? There`s some guidelines for this
> sort of thing in various spells, but just for the sake of differentiating
> spells and mundane skills I think there should be a difference.

I`d generally go with a single feat per exceptional animal. Normally the
servicable years for a warhorse are between 3-5 and that really doesn`t
justify too many feats. Animals that are special in some other way
(blooded, awakened, legendary) I would consider allowing two feats for.

> How much does having additional training increase the value of an
> animal? This might depend, of course, on the types of training involved,
> but as a general guideline I mean.

Price list:
Horse, heavy base price 200 gp
Horse, light base price 75 gp

warhorse x2
exceptional x2
masterwork, untrained x3
masterwork, trained x4

Exceptional animals are not capable of being trained, but are particularly
healthy, fine specimens, good coat and so forth. Masterwork animals
(animals of quality) are always recognized as at least exceptional animals,
if they are not recognized as masterwork. If the horse trader does reconize
their potential , they are masterwork untrained. If in fact they have been
trained, they are masterwork trained.

So an animal that was a heavy warhorse trained to grant a +2 bonus to avoid
being dismounted would cost 1600 gp in open market. 200 gp base, x2 for
warhorse, x4 for masterwork, trained.

If I were so inclined, I might seek out a young animal, heavy type which I
reconized could be trained with the toughness feat (5 hp). I couldn`t have
him for less than 400 gp, and a savvy horse trader may know his real worth
and demand 600 gp. I could then train him as a warhorse myself, as well as
train him for the toughness feat.

Kenneth Gauck
kgauck@mchsi.com

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