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  1. #1
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    1. Should you be able to be resurrected after being a victim of bloodtheft? Why or why not?


    2. If you are resurrected after being a victim of bloodtheft, do you come back as a commoner?


    3. If you answered yes to question 2, does this provide yet another reason why commoners should be able to commit bloodtheft? ie. so that former blooded characters can become blooded again.



    4. If you answered yes to question 3, a former blooded character that commits bloodtheft on the person whom stold their bloodline, should they be able to get their whole bloodline restored through bloodtheft? Why or why not?
    Lord Eldred
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  2. #2
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    1. Personally, I prefer not to allow raise dead and resurrection spells in my birthright campaign at all. I did it in my first game, and it started to look too much like Forgotten Realms(Then again, I did make my first game as a high-level, high-magic BR setting, but lol, that was back when I didn't see what fun there could be found in low-magic settings). But, baring my personal preference not to allow resurrections at all, I don't see why someone victim of a bloodtheft should not be allowed to be resurrected. Its not like it destroys the person's soul or anything.

    2. Yes, of course you do. Actually, while I don't have the book with me, I do remember something in the Book of Priestcraft that stated that when you died, you always came back without bloodline, bloodtheft or not.

    3. As I've stated elsewhere, I like the idea of commoners being able to gain a bloodline through bloodtheft. =)

    4. Not really. First of all, if he was bloodthefted, the bloodthief wouldn't gain the whole bloodline. So if the thief doesn't have the whole bloodline, there's no way to get it back. In the case that the thief first divested you, then slew you, there's nothing wrong with divesting him back of course =)
    Respectfully submitted,

    Temujin,
    Would-be ruler of you all. =)

  3. #3
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    Anyone have a different opinion?
    Lord Eldred
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    United Provinces of Cerilia
    "May Haelyn bring justice to your realm"

  4. #4
    Special Guest (Donor) morgramen's Avatar
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    Nope, I'm with Tem on this one.

    Once you're dead, you're dead baby!! :)

    In the case that you do play that resurrecition is possible, then I should say that you are just a nonblooded nobody. Nice knowin' ya King Bob, now get me some more cabbage! :P

    I think also that commoners should be able to become blooded via bloodtheft, though it is very difficult to do. Perhaps the tighmaevril compent is neccessary, or perhaps the initial "set up" of becoming blooded is very difficult, and thus it takes a few bloodthefts before you start seeing a notciable (and game mechanical) difference in the nature of the character.
    "You need people of intelligence on this mission... quest... thing."

  5. #5
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    Resurrections are discussed in the Book of Priestcraft (Regent Death and Resurrection, pg 83).

    1. Certainly. The Book of Priestcraft not only says that you can be brought back, but that you come back with your bloodline.

    2. No; you would return as a scion, but your bloodline score would be reduced by the amount your killer gained by the bloodtheft (1 pt if your score was lower than your killer's, 2 pts if yours was higher, 1/5 your score if you were the last of your line, and 1/2 if you were slain by a tighmaevril weapon). You wouldn't come back as a regent, though -- the act of dying immediately causes your domain's regency to transfer to whomever you'd designated your heir (or go uncontrolled if you hadn't designated one). You could also never be regent over your former domain -- any such investiture automatically fails.

    3. My answer to 2 was "no," and commoners can't commit bloodtheft in the first place.

    4. If your killer got 2 points (because his bloodline score was lower than yours) and his bloodline is still lower, you will only get 1 pt of bloodline score through bloodtheft. However, if his score was higher, and yours is still the lower of the two, he would have only gotten 1 in the first place, and your retaliatory bloodtheft would get you 2. If you were the last of your line, though, you will have to kill all of his relatives before getting him, and you'd better hope his score wasn't much lower than yours, because you'll only get 1/5 of his score added to your own. If he had run you through with a tighmaevril weapon, though, you're going to have to find one of your own to be able to get back the half of your bloodline score he would have ripped from your still-beating heart with his original bloodtheft.

    The only thing would make a regent (or any scion, for that matter) return to life as a commoner is dying with an heir designated (via Investiture) to receive your bloodline. Since your bloodline flies off to that heir in the last moments of your life, you'd come back as a commoner if later raised or resurrected.

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    I was following you until you got to the last paragraph. You indicate that "The only thing would make a regent (or any scion, for that matter) return to life as a commoner is dying with an heir designated (via Investiture) to receive your bloodline." Where do you get that from? On page 31 of the rulebook it indicates "If a blooded character dies a natural death or perishes at the hand of a commoner, his bloodline is unaffected, and all his bloodline characteristics die with him. If a regent character dies in a similar manner, his heir assumes the regent's domain and his Regency Point score. The heir does not gain any blood strength or abilities (but may still gain material possessions)." Thus it seems that the heir does not recieve the bloodline just the goods.

    As far as your answer to number 3 is concerned. OK maybe you would be interested in reading some of the posts and polls that discuss this in the Royal Library forum and also in this forum under Non-Regents
    Lord Eldred
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    "May Haelyn bring justice to your realm"

  7. #7
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    If you have designated an heir to receive your bloodline upon your death (via Investiture/Designation from pg 78 of the BoP), then your bloodline goes to that heir when you die. Pg 31 of the Rulebook refers to bloodtheft. Since the ceremony of Investiture that designated an heir for your bloodline is what's effecting the transfer of your bloodline rather than act of bloodtheft, this isn't conflicting with pg 31. On your death, the power of that previously cast realm spell immediately transfers all of your bloodline characteristics to that heir, exactly as if the Investiture had been successful at the time it had been cast rather than having been left to take effect at your death.

    Forget about bloodtheft for a moment -- regent or scion death from any cause will trigger the bloodline transfer dictated by the Ceremony of Investiture that designated someone an heir to a bloodline. That a regent or scion dies by bloodtheft is immaterial -- the Ceremony of Investiture transfers the bloodline regardless of how a scion dies.

    I don't really care about #3. Commoners can't commit bloodtheft under the rules. If someone wants to change that for their campaign, who am I to say anything about it ;)?

  8. #8
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    :) Thank you Warlord Nebron. Maybe if I learned how to read a bit better I would have understood what you were talking about...


    With that said do we have anyone out there with slightly different opinions than those who have already posted? Come on don't be shy!
    Lord Eldred
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    "May Haelyn bring justice to your realm"

  9. #9
    Senior Member Lawgiver's Avatar
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    1. Genrally, once yor dead your dead. Resurrrections do occur, but non have been known to happen in the last 500 years. They are basically left to God and those who exercie supreme amounts of faith in His power.

    2. Its a mute point based on 1. But if you were resurected I would vote with the idea that your bloodline is 0. I kind of liked te idea of only losing what was sucked out... but bloodtheft "severs all ties of a regent to the land". Therefore your out of luck.

    3. Commoners can suck it up just as much a blooded.

    4. I would probably grant the original amount the opponent sucked out of them, plus the normall amount gained by performing bloodtheft on the theiving regent. (if you follow...), but not the full amount the PC had before they died.

    Mr. Miagi (sp?) says, "Number one rule of Karate. Karate is for defense only. Rule number two. First learn rule number one."

    Next time the PC will be a little more cautious in combat... they should be counting their blessings that their PC isn't completely dead!
    Servant of the Most High,
    Lawgiver

    Isaiah 1:17
    Learn to do good; Seek justice, Rebuke the oppressor; Defend the fatherless, Plead for the widow.

  10. #10
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    I will anly answer to the first question, since I do not own the Book of Priestcraft (shame on me!). Resurrection is not a DAILY habbit anywhere in the universe. In BR, (I do not know if it is an official belief, but it should be) resurrection should require a huge amount of faith, and maybe a direct godly intervention. Of course there are not many 13th level priests in BR, but the fact that exist, should make them highly sought from regents, not exactly for their healing magic, but for their ability to raise regents whenever the regent died. Also the PC's should not believe that whenever they reacted foolishly and died, they would loose nothing more but one level and a few money. Gods would never allow it.
    Regarding other worlds, I do not agree with Temujin that the FR setting allows unlimited resurrection options to the PC's (he didn't say that, but when he said that he didn't want his BR setting to look like Forgotten Realms certainly points to that direction). In novels resurrection is not used when the heroes die, as it would be very unheroic. Even in the highly magic world of FR, the spell requires the God's allowance (I know it is not written, but the novels descride a world and the novels say that when you are dead, 99% you are dead forever).
    Finally, resurrection is a direct "messing around" case with the domain of the Dead. When I say domain of the Dead I mean Kelemvor in FR, and whoever is responsible for the spirits of the Dead in BR. The gods don't generally like "escapes" from various souls, during their judgement. Imagine Kelemvor having to release a follower of Cyric, just because a 14th level priest sais so. And what if the soul has been judged? Can it return in the world, even though the Lord of Death has shaped its destiny? I do not think so...
    In any case resurrection is too powerful a spell to allow it without consideration. It should cost the priest greatly (in money and XP), and it should require a positive stance from the related gods.
    Gods never die, but they are always born...

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