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  1. #1
    Senior Member Delazar's Avatar
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    [ADnD2e] Mass Combat, Adventurers, and casting Spells.

    Don't think there's a written rule for the following anywhere, but I'd like to get a few opinions. (my opinion between brackets)

    A) How many PCs/Levels do you need to qualify as an Adventurers card? (I would say at least 5 PCs, totalling a minimum of 20 levels)

    B) In the Adventurers card, is mentioned that after two hits the party disbands and flees. What if the unit that the adventurers are attached to is Destroyed in one Hit? (I rule that each player has to roll a d20. If they roll equal or less than their level, they escape and they're still alive. If they roll higher, too bad, they're dead, that's the price to pay to have the advantage of the Adventurers card)

    C) Let's say that I have a party of 3 magicians attached to a unit, can they all cast spells during the Magic phase? Or am I limited to one spell per phase? (I would say one Spell only, mostly for balance reasons. Otherwise 3 level 1 magicians with Rain of MAgic Missiles would lay waste to anything...)

    (C) is a really difficult issue, since in my party we have a Wizard and two Priests, and they all want to cast spells during the attack phase...

  2. #2
    Site Moderator Magian's Avatar
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    I can appreciate your situation. I never did concern myself much with the adventurers card for PCs rather using it as an NPC. It may be my experience with the PC game the Gorgon's Alliance and the AD&D Battlesystem put for player's characters I always separated them and gave them each their own unit. For your situation it would be an easy fix. Then again you seem to have found a gap in the rules that could use attention. I haven't played the game much since 3E came out.

    From the experience of the PC game each caster assigned to a unit was able to cast spells. Being only one per unit there wasn't much problem. Something to consider if you don't come up with a balancing regulation is that spells do run out and it is prudent to save resources for times of need. The opponents could have a spell caster of their own like a priest of shaman if you feel balance is an issue. Depending on the size of the battle you could break it up into a massive combat situation if small enough and allow those rules to be the balancing factor. In a mass combat situation perhaps not and you remain where your questions left off.

    I'd think a character that is higher in level would work best with their own unit. Then again it isn't necessary and fleshing out the adventure card rules seems like a good idea. I hope someone with more practical ideas will help you out.
    One law, One court, One allied people, One coin, and one tax, is what I shall bring to Cerilia.

  3. #3

    Smile

    It may seem like more work. But I threw out the war card system as soon as I figured out how it worked. I instead made my players use "D&D War Machine from the Companion set Rules" for fast battles that the characters were not involved in; and Use AD&D BattleSystem Rules for battles the PCs were involved in directly. I thought the war cards were too limiting and overly simple. That's just me.

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    Senior Member arpig2's Avatar
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    It really doesn't matter what you do, you're slapping a band-aid on a gut wound. The whole War Cards system is totally FUBAR. If you insist on using it, I'd go with Magian's solution.

    I haven't gotten to playtesting it yet, but I plan to use a modification of the War & Conquest rules available in the Downloads section.

  5. #5
    Senior Member Delazar's Avatar
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    what solution? to assign each of them to a different unit?

    PCs will assign themselves where they prefer, I guess... I don't have much saying in that...

    As the game progresses, I've noticed one more problem. PC Spellcasters rule the battlefield... I need to have them fight DOUBLE their numbers, or I need to insert an equal-power NPCs party on the other side of the battlefield, to challenge them.

    The latter kind of takes away our suspension of disbelief, so I just add more troops on the enemies' side...

  6. #6
    Site Moderator geeman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by arpig2 View Post
    I haven't gotten to playtesting it yet, but I plan to use a modification of the War & Conquest rules available in the Downloads section.
    What were you planning on modifying? Anything that might go into a version 2.0?

    Gary

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    Senior Member arpig2's Avatar
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    Mostly adding a lot of detail. I fell in love with the Unit Level idea *brilliant* and I also liked the simplicity of using the opposed roll to resolve combat.

    At this point, I have redone the unit definitions and purchasing rules. Units now are defined by the following categories:
    Class, Training, Type, Equipment, and Special Training/Abilities. Each will affect the unit's stats.

    A unit has the following stats: Cost, melee rating, missile rating, & defense rating, all of which are on a per level basis. In addition, a unit has an advantage rating and a morale rating (a base + a modifier based on level)

    I have also modified the actual battle round rules.

    Here's an example.
    ADVANTAGE
    At the start of each round of battle determine which side has the tactical advantage for that round. This is accomplished with an opposed roll. Each commander totals the Advantage modifiers of his troops, his WIS/I score, any bonuses or penalties from a Strategy NWP and any situational modifiers determined by the DM (+/- 1 to 3) to a d20 roll. The commander with the higher score has the advantage that round. Advantage is expressed in Advantage points; the winner gets 1 Advantage Point for every 5 points (rounded up) by which his roll exceeds that of his opponent. Advantage points can be applied to any roll, but like CPs they must be declared before the die is rolled. Advantage Points cannot be accumulated, any unused Advantage Points are lost at the end of the Battle Round.

    I have also developed a new (as far as I know) way of applying spells.
    MAGIC
    Spells are applied by spell level rather than by specific spells. Every spell level applied to an attack gives a +2 bonus. Arcane (wizard) magic applies to the Attack rating, and divine (priestly) magic can be applied to either the Defence or Morale rating. A spellcaster may cast as many spells as he wishes during a Battle Round but may only apply one spell (of whatever level) to a given unit at a time. Commander spellcasters may only apply spell levels to units under his command, while hero spellcasters can apply them to any unit in his army.

    It's mostly notes and some spread sheets, not really in a presentable condition, but if you're interested, I can put it together in a decent format and send it to you.

    Bob

  8. #8
    Site Moderator AndrewTall's Avatar
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    One complicating factor that we used in Rjurik Winds was the leadership skill - if a commander tried to lead too many men they are less effective. I think we actually limited the number of troops 'active' at any time - the rest were deemed unable to engage due to poor positioning, etc. You could reflect that with a penalty / bonus to the advantage roll - if the leader can very easily lead their troops then they can position them to maximise skills, etc and vice versa.

    Terrain could also influence matters - if all troops on one side were able to pass through the specific harsh terrain (woods, hills, marsh, etc) freely and the other side were impeded by it then a modifier to the round 'round advantage roll' would be reasonable.

  9. #9
    Senior Member arpig2's Avatar
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    I use that too, I call it Command Capacity. It's based on class, CHA/L, level, and some skills/NWP.

    Though I hadn't thought of applying it to the Advantage determination. That's really a damned good idea. The terrain one as well. You're one smart cookie AT.



    Merci beaucoup
    Last edited by arpig2; 08-12-2011 at 03:09 PM.

  10. #10
    Junior Member splinter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Delazar View Post
    Don't think there's a written rule for the following anywhere, but I'd like to get a few opinions. (my opinion between brackets)

    A) How many PCs/Levels do you need to qualify as an Adventurers card? (I would say at least 5 PCs, totalling a minimum of 20 levels)

    B) In the Adventurers card, is mentioned that after two hits the party disbands and flees. What if the unit that the adventurers are attached to is Destroyed in one Hit? (I rule that each player has to roll a d20. If they roll equal or less than their level, they escape and they're still alive. If they roll higher, too bad, they're dead, that's the price to pay to have the advantage of the Adventurers card)

    we use in our campaing following rules :

    there is no adventurers card, because it ruins the game balance, you can as a player character attach to a unit, this will give a +1 on the melee rating of the unit, for keeping it simple we made no differences between the character classes. so if you have 3 player characters, they can if they want to, attach to different units .
    if these units are somehow destroyed, you have to roll the dices two times 1- 50 %, nothing happend to you, 51% - 100% something bad happend... if you roll the later you have to roll again 1-50 % you could somehow escape - 51% - 100 % youre dead. you can modify the roll by the amount of bodyguards you have, each bodyguard gives you a +1% on the roll.

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