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  1. #21
    Site Moderator Magian's Avatar
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    Just doing a google search of bolan for the M'bolan tribes on the old map yields a tribe of people in Pakistan. The Sihag or Bolan, a gotra (clan) of Jat people and the Bolan Pass. The tribe seems to be a warrior tribe oriented with swords. The pass seems to be a pass that is used to link upper and lower Asia. Both can be used I suppose. With the pass linking directly to the area where I have the Brecht origins it falls in line with them being the first to flee from the shadow if they came through this pass.

    Now is this tribe yet another group from a different continent?

    I don't know just my initial ideas borrowing hopefully from the base culture the name comes from.
    One law, One court, One allied people, One coin, and one tax, is what I shall bring to Cerilia.

  2. #22
    Site Moderator Sorontar's Avatar
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    My thought of the Yikarian Empire was that it is not much of an empire anymore. It would have to either be halfway down Aduria or down near the southern penisular. My idea was to have the Forgotten God as almost a legend, where none but his high priestess and the Whisperer may know whether he lives or not. I tried to arrange it so there is a bit of bickering between the sages, each having different objectives and desires. Yes, they are mega powerful compared to the awnsheghlien and regents of Cerilia but that is easy to change because I gave them no detailed description. I just tried to work with that was in the original article.

    As I say, I think they are an ex-empire. The number of their dwarven slaves have dropped off and their resources are dwindling. The number of Yakmen is also not as large as it used to be. Why? Well that would be up to the DM. Perhaps it was because the Forgotten God is dying or dead. Perhaps the Whisperer and/or one of the sages is plotting. After all, the Whisperer is not native to Aebrynis. Perhaps a regent from the north has discovered their secret of the hallong and is working it against them. With the rumours of a new navy, perhaps some of the sages want to send an invasion force north. Tailor it however you like. Make the Yikarian realm as strong or weak as you like (or omit it). It just gives you a different race to work with that is rarely used elsewhere.

    Sorontar

  3. #23
    Site Moderator Magian's Avatar
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    Thanks for pointing it out I appreciate it. I had at first glance seen the yakmen as some sort of benevolent race, but that was before I actually read them. That makes them more cool. I guess I'll see what I do. One idea is that the empires of the shadow were once united in momentum to take the other tribes of Aduria, but are not now and are factionalized, yet have some of the same aims. Like you said I'll figure it out for myself.
    One law, One court, One allied people, One coin, and one tax, is what I shall bring to Cerilia.

  4. #24
    Site Moderator AndrewTall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magian View Post
    @AndrewTall
    I was thinking the beastmen could be a mix of both really. I like the native beastmen furry dudes with tribal paint, perhaps giving Azrai the notion of "enhancing" humans to this superior races. Then ending up with the hydrakin mixes of abominations and werebeasts and such. So Aduria could be vastly like the Harrowmarsh in many places with Awnsheghlien running rampant making it impossible to establish rule. Thereby being like the Vos expansion in that adventure becomes the way of establishing realms. Most assuredly in the Beastman zone.

    Perhaps as a rough estimate in domain mechanics we could say for each province and province level and holding, and holding level you have to slay some rampant awnsheghlien in the lands where you are hoping to expand? Since they hold influence as perhaps chaotic, which opposes your rule and you have to remove them first. If they were a den mother you get to deal with a bunch of Grendels plaguing your realm for decades. Yeah Aduria seems pretty cool.
    Hmm, furry ape-men with warpaint, I like it but my practical nature has me wondering how long the clean-up takes That said the whole image of howling hordes brachiating through the jungle as they bundle after fleeing PCs gives me a happy smile inside.

    I like the wild-lands approach, it fits how I see the Giantdowns, much of northern Vosgaar as well. I'd put in 'monster populations', since in my system the rule cost gets very high as a population expands that immediately cripples a ruler's ability to increase their lands unless 'something is done'. Ethnic cleansing it tough given medieval organisation, etc but I can see mass migrations being forced by continual warfare - pity the fools on the other side - perhaps driving the goblins into the deep woods is what really turned the sidhe against the human tribes...

    Quote Originally Posted by Magian View Post
    Looking at you mentioning the Vos involved with the beastmen, I am in a state of wonder. I know its your ideas, and they rock and thanks for sharing. I am wondering if that fits into the timeline with the Cerilian Chronicles. The flight from the shadow starts about -800 from the first point and the Vos are corrupted just before Deismaar. That doesn't exclude the possibility, but I get the sense the beastmen, for the most part, were around Aduria for much longer than thisssss. (sorry that Yuan-ti empire is getting to me.)
    Hmm, I've been posting tired recently, Azrai was clearly driving the humans out of Aduria centuries before Deismaar during the Flight from Shadow, I had thought that Azrai corrupted the Vos earlier than the timeline shows, but can't recall why or whether that part of the timeline is canon - I may have been sloppily thinking of all Azrai's human followers as Vos (clearly incorrect given the Gorgon and Serpent, both of whom led substantial human forces) but struggle to see a mere century as long enough to shift dreamy mystic type Vos into raging berserkers. I also had Aduria as an ancient human land in my mind as it clearly had 5 of the 6 tribes of man in it so saw beast-men as a more recent addition, but then who followed Azrai to fuel his strength if not others? My apologies if I de-railed any trains of thought.

    That said I doubt that the fleeing tribes of man were particularly concerned about the genetic heritage of the beast-men, demons, etc that drove them from the land! Serpent-men always seem to be an old race to me, but that could be due to FR influence, or some Greyhawk stuff rattling around in my head. So they could be a mix of all sorts - old monster-races who flourished after the human tribes fled, or in the carnage after Deismaar, races that served Azrai and were rewarded with proliferation, and then races that were actively created during the Flight and then War of the Shadow.

    Quote Originally Posted by Magian View Post
    Regarding the spirit world, are you making a distinction between that and the shadow world/world of the fae? Just wondering where the notion of the spirit world came into play unless we are getting into the outer planes. I am sure a plot with Azrai could entail that kind of thing for sure. Just want to know if I am understanding you correctly.
    I use the term Spirit World for the Shadow World before it became corrupted by the Shadow. I use it also for the few areas of brightness left in the Shadow World, and in my campaign had the Shadow World fragmenting in two itself - light and dark, one a world of fey and wonder, the other demons, shadow and terror - but both realms mutable, marked out by realms dominated by a great power, and often both providing a distorted mirror of areas of Cerilia of the past, present or future... I think that the outer planes were described as pockets in the Shadow World by Rich Baker somewhere, personally I dispensed with them as I didn't want to have incarnate deities, I had areas of the Shadow/Spirit world formed by the various churches which were analogous but never fleshed the thoughts out.

  5. #25
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    A few comments on the map as I've been giving some thought about it when I was writing about Vos.

    The Andu. Their placement corresponds to my thoughts with a difference in giving them some more space to the south (central lake). That would place the Vos also somewhat to the south.
    Same thing with the Rjurik an Brecht, but generally they would be where they are on the map.
    And then Masetians, giving them some more room to the south, and perhaps cut of some of the northern parts.

    If I'm doing this right and remember correctly, the Andu were the closest to the land bridge, so they benefited from it the most. The Masetians perhaps passed across the land bridge in smaller numbers, the majority using boats to reach the southern Khinasi. The Rjurik just sailed across the sea to the northern parts of Cerilia, since the Andu already occupied the southern parts. Then the Brecht had no choice but to test their luck by going all the way around (hopefully, it was summer).

    As for the Vos, in the end, some were not corrupted by Azrai and wanted to flee. By using the land bridge, they've discovered the Andu already settled southern portion of Cerilia, and pretty much everybody else was already there so they had no choice but to move more eastward, initially staying round the present day Innishiere. Of course, one of the reasons they came to this part of Cerilia is because they were not welcome anywhere else, since the rest believed that they were also corrupted.

    About beast-men I haven't given any particular thought, perhaps some kind od lizard-men in the Great Desert (the one in the central western part of the map). Someone called them Sskisarak or something like that?

    What I would like to know is, where there some other people (tribes or races like Andu, Rjurik... like mentioned Celts)? Did the Cerilian races leave some of their brethren 'down under', were they turned into beast-men, did they survive in small groups, did they build some new kingdoms? Generally, I would like to know about Aduria today. Some have already mentioned bits of that in their replies. Also, the e-mails from Rich have shed some light about that, but in some narrow coastal areas of north.
    Rey M. - court wizard of Tuarhievel

  6. #26
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    Ah, it's Ssarak, I see it now. And not lizard-men, but serpent.
    Rey M. - court wizard of Tuarhievel

  7. #27
    Site Moderator Magian's Avatar
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    I was thinking of putting the Mhora on the lake by that forest area to signify they were always the shield for the Andu even on Cerilia. Likely a pass through the mountains someplace. The border would be between the mountains that touch the lake and the river in the west. I have some of the areas I talked about plotted in this map attached to this post.

    You mention the Masetians going further south, this map has where I figure they were extending down south.

    Aquataine is the isolated version I had in recent posts that seems to make sense, perhaps an answer to your other question. The left overs of the flight came here after the war and established a mixed kingdom of the tribes. It being isolated and a promising land for thriving.

    The old Andu spot could be where the Anuireans attempt new colonies, likely run down forts for any remnants that are struggling to survive against the humanoids and the Yikarians, if you have them in the south mountains like I suggested. I am thinking the Andu spot is run down and could use Anuirean or other help.

    The Masetian spot in the north is pretty much a wasteland aside from Mieres and some grasslands surrounding it. South of that desert below Mieres is where I expect some reclaiming of lands by the Gold Coast tribe of what I'd call High Africans that are armored with knights of their own sort. Above the red line is their colonies and below it is more established kingdoms dealing with beastman incursions from the interior.

    I still don't envision the Vos spot yet, but I do like the Rjurik having the mountainous and some wooded coastal spots in the north. The Brecht having the basin (I plotted it) and most of the west coast spots mainly from the description of their flight from Havens of the Great bay.

    I have the Yak spots plotted for possible places for that Yikarian Empire.

    The purple median I think shows the mountains without a pass through them aside from the Bolan Pass separating the continent.

    As for the Celts I figure they are untouched and are likely to become like Anuireans with a king uniting them. That is where I think the current campaign would be good to start them. Then the king becoming acquainted with Aquataine and their queen. Likely will expand out into the mainland which is divided with small lords here and there and some wild lands. That's what I think right now. Oh like Anuireans in that they begin the rise of their own empire on the mainland.
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    One law, One court, One allied people, One coin, and one tax, is what I shall bring to Cerilia.

  8. #28
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    Seems legit.

    I was picturing the Brecht even below the Adurian "spine", on the west coast. Ships go by sea, so they (the Brecht, not the ships) have no need to walk across the mountains. The Gold coast seems great. I would love to see the Masetians re-introduced in Aduria as a human race that survived. Perhaps thrown a bit southward so they've lost ties with their fled northern brethren. Vos, I considered them to be one of the most southern races, although, why not a new race even more to the south, but they were perhaps completely subdued and turned to Shadow, or something.

    And one more thing, I imagine the desert areas in the north of the continent as the aftermath of the War of the Shadow, the suffering of the land perhaps.

    Anyway, I'll browse for Rich Baker's letters regarding the northern Aduria...
    Rey M. - court wizard of Tuarhievel

  9. #29
    Site Moderator Magian's Avatar
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    I was wondering about the Brecht being below the spine (good name). The reason I hadn't gone with that was the placement of the M'bolan tribes on the map that shows them. Using the shape of the continent of the old map and trying to fit the new shape with the intended locals it appeared to me that the tribes are just below the mountain spine.

    Aside from putting the Brechts just south of the spine I considered putting them also at that coastal spot south of the Great Desert with the mountains and woods too. Plenty of possibilities. However, how big do I want them to be? Maybe spread out a bit with a spot here and there?
    One law, One court, One allied people, One coin, and one tax, is what I shall bring to Cerilia.

  10. #30
    Site Moderator Magian's Avatar
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    This map is plotted with regions I figure could be Brecht areas. Areas 1-6 being entire areas I'd like use with natural borders delineating possible regions. These regions being the Brechts would only occupy 1-3 of them as any more makes them pretty darn big.

    1. I figure is the High Brecht strong point with the basin I mentioned before.

    2. I thing could be the Low Brecht with possible mingling with the Celt tribes. Also a possible Vos spot.

    3. The interior being a breadbasket for the Brechts. With the possibility of the Mhora tribe of Andus originating as eastern neighbors and maybe Vos on either or both the 2 area and east in the woods line south of the water. Otherwise this could be divided up into different areas. North and south of the water. Giving Vos the south including the 2 area and east woods line.

    4. The other area I was thinking for Brechts but conflicted with the M'bolan plot on the early map. The M'bolan tribes fitting in with the whole pass concept being the only spot to travel through to get north in Aduria on land. Perhaps some domains of both Brecht and M'bolan within this area it being a mixture area.

    5. The southern most point I figure the Brechts would ever be.

    6. A possible other spot for the Brechts.

    All these spots added together equals the western coast of Aduria that fits in with the Havens of the Great Bay description of their origins on this continent. Leaving room for the Celts and the Rjurik in the north mountains this should cover all the spots they are. Give or take a few areas, resize and reshape perhaps given other specific reasons as per preference it would look similar to this.

    I would not include all these areas as Brecht lands. Possibly they were in each of these areas but as outposts for their trading and the like. If we take that approach, then it makes sense that the Brechts were the first to flee in accordance with the Chronicles of Cerilia article in Dragon. They'd likely have trade with the southern empires.

    Of course up to this point everything is generalized concepts and subject to change.

    Question. If the Brecht went so far south, why not up north? Perhaps they did and started some settling in the Aquataine basin that I plotted earlier. Or maybe its costly sailing around that northern horn of the continent as the currents and winds could be dangerous and only a flight from the shadow warranted the risk as the first scouting of Cerilia was hinted as overland.

    What does the Brecht lands look like today? No idea yet. I figure much of the outposts would have been abandoned first causing the flight in the first place as the empires marched north. I figure the M'bolan tribes are there, possibly nomadic as well as urbanized, the nomads likely perpetuated the people as the cities were likely destroyed.

    The upper Brecht lands might be resettled or overrun with beastmen. Could be the beginning of expansion by the Celts, but I would think that the campaign begins when the wards start to fall or when they do giving rise to the imperial aspirations of the tribes on the isle. Possibly area 2 is the first signs of Celt kingdoms, maybe some left over expanses from Rjuriks protected by the Valkyr. Old remnants in little pockets of the original tribes could also remain.

    I read some about 4e concepts and the phrase points of light comes to mind here. However, many ruins of the old kingdoms remain. Therefore high adventure over politics I think may be what we could expect. Politics after an empire is made. Or the high politics of Anuire would be reduced to warlords making and breaking alliances on the keeps of their borderlands. Maybe an new rule for the boxed set would have been create province action. If it was to be released in 98. This continent I'd think could use the Kingmaker path from pathfinder. I don't think it has much in the way of established civilization. Even the Khinasi city states are like little beacons in a see of wilderness with small buffer provinces surrounding the cities.

    The southern empires I figure were so decadent that they couldn't sustain themselves. Much of their wealth and power was used in the war of the shadow and those that survived Deismaar if they survived the aftermath limped back home or established themselves elsewhere only to watch their near empty domains collapse with in fighting as their god no longer united them.

    Now the question I wonder is the Yuan-ti empire the only one from the south? It would seem there are at least two other empires mentioned. The Gold coast and the Djinni Persian. Are they simply colonizations of other tribes? Before or after the war of the shadow? If before, how were they affected by it? If after, then what was there before they came and what still may lurk?

    With the M'bolan likely being Pakistan-like peoples. Does my idea of south american like empires mixed with the Yuan-ti fit? Or were the M'bolan marked simply the independent tribes and the others of the same race subject to the Yuan-ti? If the M'bolan are not connected to them, then are they another colonization from an Indian-Pakistan-or Inter-Asian tribe from another continent? If so, then my Aduria is becoming quite the melting pot of tribes from other lands.
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