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  1. #1
    Senior Member Jaleela's Avatar
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    Jan 2007
    New England

    Question Tighmaevril vs. the blood ability Invulnerability

    Tighmaevril vs. Invulnerability

    Do attempts at bloodtheft with a Tighmaevril weapon superseed the conditions and aspects of the blood ability Invulnerability?

    This is sort of a revisiting to an old thread (I would have posted it there but...because it was over 1700 days old, I couldn't reply to it).

    Original Thread posted by Rhiannon Faramiriel:

  2. #2
    Senior Member
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    At 01:59 PM 12/20/2010, Jaleela wrote:

    >Tighmaevril vs. Invulnerability
    >Do attempts at bloodtheft with a Tighmaevril weapon superseed the
    >conditions and aspects of the blood ability Invulnerability?

    In the original rules, I`d argue that Invulnerability precludes
    bloodtheft by definition. In order for a scion to commit bloodtheft
    he must KILL another scion by stabbing him in the heart. One could,
    I suppose, be stabbed in the heart and survive--though I imagine it`d
    still be pretty unpleasant. It`d just mean the stab wasn`t
    particularly deep. I read that to mean that the victim of bloodtheft
    must actually die in order for his life force, to which is bloodline
    is tied, to pass out of his body for the thief to take a portion of
    it for his own. If a scion weren`t killed by being stabbed through
    the heart, then I`d argue since his life force doesn`t leave his
    body, neither does this bloodline. Since no energy leaves the
    would-be victim, there`s no transfer of bloodline.

    So, unless the special manner of death required to kill a scion who
    has the Invulnerability blood ability involves that scion being
    stabbed in the heart, by requiring that special manner of death, the
    blood ability makes bloodtheft impossible. I can think of only one
    way around this particular issue:

    If a scion were to be executed or sacrificed in such a way that
    allowed a bloodthief to stab the invulnerable scion in the heart at
    the same moment the manner of death required by the Invulnerability
    blood ability were met then I think bloodtheft would still be
    possible. For example, a scion whose Invulnerability required that
    he be killed by beheading with a silver weapon, could theoretically
    be stabbed in the heart at the same moment he was
    decapitated. Personally, I don`t think I`d allow such a thing to
    work. I`d argue that in both cases (bloodtheft and the requirement
    of Invulnerability) address the same issue: the killing blow. No
    matter how precise the timing, those two things couldn`t occur at the
    same time. (Unless, again, they were actually the same act--a stab
    to the heart.) However, I could see someone making an argument that
    it`d work. It`s so strange a scenario, however, that I think I`d
    reserve it for DM fiat/NPC background rather than let players go
    around attempting such a thing.

    Shameless Plug: In my version of the bloodline system, New Scions,
    whether a scion with Invulnerability can be killed by an act of
    bloodtheft or not is specifically addressed in the base power
    description at level 7, the "great" power level of that blood
    ability. An "invulnerable" scion can be killed in an act of
    bloodtheft at base power 1-6 (at those levels sundry "survivability"
    powers are gained) but it isn`t until he has the ability at level 7
    that he can no longer be killed normally, and is thus immune to
    bloodtheft. That text is available in the Supplements section of the
    downloads area.

    Hope that helps,

  3. #3
    It's the last sentence in the description that's the killer (for want of a better word), "Unless it is truly destroyed, the blooded character does not lose any of it's birthright or regency."
    However, since if this holds true it is now easier to rid Cerelia of the Gorgon than of several of the other Greater Awnsheghlien as he ISN'T Invulnerable, IMO blood silver trumps blood ability.


  4. #4
    Senior Member Jaleela's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    New England
    Gary, that's an interesting concept in your "shameless plug" section...the rising to a specific level before the "great" aspect of the blood ability kicks in.

    Thanks guys.


  5. #5
    Senior Member
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    At 04:26 AM 12/21/2010, Jaleela wrote:

    >Gary, that`s an interesting concept in your "shameless plug"
    >section...the rising to a specific level before the "great" aspect
    >of the blood ability kicks in.

    In the original rules, Invulnerability only exists as a "great"
    power. Many other blood abilities were only written up as one or two
    of these "blood ability levels" if you will. In several ways, I
    think that makes for an unwieldy system. Character generation is
    awkward, especially in combination with the already existing
    limitations on bloodline by derivation; the powers weren`t available
    to many scions at all because "great" powers were out of
    reach. Stuff like that.

    One of the ideas behind the Blood Ability Points system that became
    New Scions was that it should complete all the blood abilities. That
    is, all the blood abilities should have minor, major and great
    descriptions. Given that 3e+ is so much more articulated than 2e
    was, there was also an opportunity to more carefully and particularly
    flesh out those levels themselves, so each is subdivided into three
    progressive levels in a base power.

    Where possible I tried to address some of the vagaries of the system
    (both the original and BAP) in the text. Of course, that`s an
    impossible task to do completely, but things like this issue with
    Invulnerability and bloodtheft come up from time to time here in the
    Birthright community. It wasn`t until you mentioned it this time
    `round, however, that the thought occurred to me that someone might
    want to spin out a scenario in which the bloodtheft and the act
    necessary to kill a scion with Invulnerability might occur at the
    same moment. As I said, I don`t think I`d allow players to pull off
    such a thing--though a lot of the players I`ve known would definitely
    try it.... I don`t think it need be specifically addressed in the
    rules, but it is the kind of thing that reading these forums is good
    for. "What if..." scenarios don`t always come up, but its nice to
    have considered them in advance should they, or should something
    similar come along.


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