Battle Magic Poll

[Lawgiver]

I'm all for preists having battle magic. A version of Flame Strike come to mind...

[Lord Eldred]

I definately agree that they should be able to cast battle magic. I am still not clear why it was argued that they can't!

[Lawgiver]

probably a wizzie afraid to lose their position in the kingdom or have a challenge to their power.

[Lord Eldred]

Yeh, and now is too afraid to come forward and defend his argument. Those wizzies can be wimps at times!

[Dosiere]

Wizzie Commandoes and protection from normal misiles, and all this talk. You don't let the wizzie take the field! Just send the assassins into camp the night before battle, or even days before if you have good enough intel on their location. But if they must take the field...it is always good to then send the squad of adventurers across enemy lines to attack the mage directly from the rear...he would certainly be in a location close to the commander. And should he wise up and join with a unit...then you had just better hope that the infantry can distract him long enough to get the cavalry in there to shake him up.

[Lord Eldred]

You go Dosiere! Waste those Wizzies! Wizzies can't survive with Dosiere as the mastermind.

[Arch-Sorcerer Gargamel]

My mindset is that wizards invented battle magic. Wizard spells seem more attuned to direct combat and often have more warlike tendencies than most religions.

It could be argued that priestly power comes as much from the people as it does from their God. Since they're given power to coerce and lead people, they would also have power over battles, which are essentially part of their people. At this point I must point to the fact that the Gods have already granted priests powerful spells that wizards can't par (read: Quest Spells). These spells are granted specifically to further the ethos of the deity in question. These spells can also be far more effective than battle spells. If you feel battle spells are neccesary to have priests be a counter to wizards, then you should also have wizards have some sort of equivalent of Quest spells. (Note: I do not allow players to have access to wish or miracle spells outside of rare occurences and never in their spellbooks, thus wish spells are not a complement to quest spells)

It can also be argued that Quest spells are rare. I must also point out that wizards are also rare (far more so than priests), particularly ones who desire to march with and support armies.

Another possible argument is the level requirements. Battle spells are available at a far lower level than Quest spells. I believe that this is because Quest spells are far more powerful and that Battle spells are merely an expansion of effect, rather than a great increase in power.

This brings me to my next point, that I view battle magic as a form of blood driven meta-magic. Priests (traditionally) aren't as interested in the shaping process of their spells, which is often a point of obssession among wizards. Priests aren't nearly as focused on magic as wizards are, by default.

All this said, maybe some priests should have limited access to battle magic, though I disagree due to my wizard bias. I've only noticed 3 of the 11 human deities with the war domain. Another one has the protection domain. 2 more have the magic domain. 4 deities that could justify war neccesity for battle magic and 2 that could justify magic province for battle magic. Barely half of the human deities. Dwarves hate magic and Goblins aren't particularly attuned to it. However, if you truly want a priestly equivalent to battlemagic spells, I suggest converting old War sphere spells and leaving them as regularly granted magics, rather than battle magic spells.

Lastly, bring on your anti-magic commandos, assassins, lions, tigers, bears, and whatnot. I'll have none of it. I wouldn't be a good mage if I didn't watch my back along with my front. And while your squad of adventurers is occupied with my wizard, my obviously superior and well-prepared armies are crushing yours. Besides, how do you know if I'm even there, or anywhere? How do you know my counter-intell hasn't duped you into a trap? Protection from Normal Missles and Prismatic Wall will prevail.

[Lord Eldred]

I still don't understand Gargamel why a priest that has a spell that affects a number of people equal to a unit that that wouldn't be allowed. Must I remind you that Battle Spells are not special spells they are just spells that work against large number of people (not an expansion of the effect). See your rule books.

Even if you didn't like that, you would have to agree that Gods with war as their domain would likely give their priests war magic. Perhaps to get the balance you want they wouldn't give the quest spell to them.

I am not sure why Priests would have to be interested in the process of their spell in order for it to work on a unit!

With all this said, Priests would not have access to the same battle spells that Wizards have access to because remember they are regular spells that have large effects.

If they are not regular spells, where does the rules spell out how many Battle spells you get per level or describe what level each battle spell is accessed at?

Finally my General will command my superior force while we crush you! :)

[Abbess Allessandra]

Just remember all good spells must come to an end and anyone wanting to kill the wizard or priest could do so if they wait for the right time.

[Arch-Sorcerer Gargamel]

Ok, my belief is that wizards should rely on spells more than priests. I agree that if a priest has a spell that is large enough to affect an entire unit, it should be able to be used in battle.

However, if I'm not mistaken, some battle spells presented by T$R were actually modified spells, except that they were of the same level as normal spells, but could only be used in battle situations, because they had greater casting times or something. I also agree that War Gods would be more likely to give their priests spells that are useful in battle (in this manner).

If all battle spells are the same as regular spells, I'm going to start casting rain of magic missles and target them all on a single person.

In all, I think we are in disagreement mainly on the nature of battle magic spells in general. I believe that some battle spells are special and those altered spells should be restricted to wizards, in the name of Meta-Magic.

(Disclaimer: If the battle specific spells given in the Book of Magecraft are actually just spells of a higher level, rather than what I believe them to be, I will rescind my entire argument.)