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  1. #1
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    Festivals and Holidays

    First: I want to say hello to all of you ; ] I'm working with BR for 14 years, still on 2ed with some house rules, so i will probably don't argue with you about curent game mechanics ;]

    Second: I just lurk throu Wiki and some forums threads, and find that it's only few festivals and holidays mentioned, IMHO in medieval society with strong religious influences there should be much more of them. Because for years I concentrate on Elves and Gorgon i didn't think about it before. Now when i starting new campaign in Aernwe and I'm in need on some infos about human society i think that it will be helpfull, not only to me, but also for others users ;]
    So if someone have any Fests and holidays info please tell us about it

    greetings

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    At 08:00 PM 9/6/2010, docend wrote:

    >Second: I just lurk throu Wiki and some forums threads, and find
    >that it`s only few festivals and holidays mentioned, IMHO in
    >medieval society with strong religious influences there should be
    >much more of them. Because for years I concentrate on Elves and
    >Gorgon i didn`t think about it before. Now when i starting new
    >campaign in Aernwe and I`m in need on some infos about human society
    >i think that it will be helpfull, not only to me, but also for others users ;]
    >
    >So if someone have any Fests and holidays info please tell us about it

    You`re talking about this page:
    http://www.birthright.net/brwiki/index.php/Time%2C_seasons%2C_and_holidays

    Correct?

    In any case, I just did a quick search of the archives, and this is
    one of those areas that could use fleshing out. There`s been some
    interesting stuff done, but if one takes into consideration the fact
    that every day has/had a saint associated with it, and a pretty much
    limitless source of celebrations/observances in a setting with the
    age, range of cultures and background of Birthright, there`s very few
    limitations to the number and type of holidays possible.

    For instance, here`s a write up for a goblin observance written by
    Alexander MacLeod for his revision of the Cerilian gods.

    Important Ceremonies/Holy Days: Every month, under the dark of the new
    moon, the goblin priests of Kartathok perform incomprehensible and enigmatic
    rituals in honor of their god, climaxing in blood sacrifice and promises of
    the destruction of his enemies. Most other Kartathokan ceremonies are just
    as dark, if not more so. However, there is one surprisingly light holiday
    celebrated by the goblins of Cerilia -- the remembrance of the goblin
    uprising against the elves, their slaying of Sidhe Braelachhiem and the
    ruining of the elves` Golden Age. This uprising took place c. -2968 to -2911
    HC; not many goblins know the exact date. The remembrance is celebrated
    sometime during the weeks before or after the Day of Rebirth, depending on
    which goblin realm one is in. Great feasts, the burning of elves (mostly in
    effigy, as live elves are still hard to come by in most goblin realms), and
    the telling of outrageous goblin legends (mostly lies) are the main
    traditions.

    The whole thread is available here:
    http://oracle.wizards.com/scripts/wa.exe?A2=ind9911D&L=BIRTHRIGHT-L&P=R3017&I=-3

    In addition, there`s been some general discussion of how the domain
    rules should work in relation to holidays, festivals and
    tournaments. Have a look at
    http://www.birthright.net/forums/festival-and-tournament-actions-t505.html?t=505&highlight=festival

    Hope that helps,
    Gary

  3. #3
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    Thanks Gary

    Yes I think about that page in wiki. That link about Goblins is great, i will surely use it in my "prime" campaign ; ]


    As I mentioned above i didn't care about human faiths until now, and find that is rather amusing that we know only about few holly days for well described deities and faiths ; ] Surely as i didn't think about BR churches too close to catholics, so we don't need to bother about saints for every day. But I think that 2 holly days for faith of Nesire ( i will hook up vital point of campaign in the Ursuline Chappel) is rather ridiculous. Offcourse I will make some by myself, but still think that it will be very useful to expand that database which is in Wiki. That's why I asking here ; ]

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    At 01:06 AM 9/7/2010, docend wrote:

    >Yes I think about that page in wiki. That link about Goblins is
    >great, i will surely use it in my "prime" campaign ; ]
    >
    > As I mentioned above i didn`t care about human faiths until now,
    > and find that is rather amusing that we know only about few holly
    > days for well described deities and faiths ; ] Surely as i didn`t
    > think about BR churches too close to catholics, so we don`t need to
    > bother about saints for every day. But I think that 2 holly days
    > for faith of Nesire ( i will hook up vital point of campaign in
    > the Ursuline Chappel) is rather ridiculous. Offcourse I will make
    > some by myself, but still think that it will be very useful to
    > expand that database which is in Wiki. That`s why I asking here ; ]

    I see. It sounds like you`re on the right track. I agree that we
    should be leery of drawing any connection to the Catholic (or any
    real world) Church too directly. Of course, there are massive
    differences between the concept of saints and that of scions. I
    mentioned it only as an example of how that kind of thing played out
    in the real world. Given that BR scions have an actual connection to
    the gods--part of which is what makes a "saint" in the first
    place--there are at any time thousands of them running around, so
    there is ample fodder.

    If you sketch out more stuff please let us all know since its the
    kind of thing that the whole community could benefit from.

    When it comes to holidays for the human deities, you`re quite
    right. Two isn`t enough for any particular god/dess. At a guess, we
    should have 12-15 major (high?) holidays for the pantheon, and about
    three or four times that many as minor (low?) holidays.

    The anniversary of Deismaar probably isn`t a "holiday" in the
    joyful/happy sense, but would likely be marked as an observance. I
    don`t know what one might do on "god death-rebirth day" but as the
    most important day of the setting`s background it seems like it would
    get some sort of attention....

    Similarly, the anniversary of Michael Rhoele`s death would probably
    not go unnoticed, particularly in the Imperial City.

    Gary

  5. #5
    Senior Member Mirviriam's Avatar
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    It would be interesting to see a bit of historical working as in ancient myth/oral record/old ways/modern rituals have evolved too.

    One of things that is missing in most social rpg's are that very classical versus modernist views of society clashing...imho...ceremonies aren't just flavor or cult story points, they were the cumulation of a society's views/art/means (as show by ancient druid's gold road in europe).

    A sort of historical developed set of views, fractions and ceremonies would set a world apart from almost any other game. I'm talking with in the boundaries of our copyright & fleshing or the gray areas.
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    Site Moderator Sorontar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mirviriam View Post
    One of things that is missing in most social rpg's are that very classical versus modernist views of society clashing...imho...ceremonies aren't just flavor or cult story points, they were the cumulation of a society's views/art/means (as show by ancient druid's gold road in europe).
    Like the competing groves of Erik and those rival temples of Haelyn? You would like them to argue about festivals/ceremonies like the christian churchs did over things like Easter etc (cf. First Council of Nicaea).

    One wonders if the location of the Book of Laws is more "Mecca"-like than Deismaar's location to some Haelyn worshippers.

    A sort of historical developed set of views, fractions and ceremonies would set a world apart from almost any other game. I'm talking with in the boundaries of our copyright & fleshing or the gray areas.
    fractions? Do you mean factions?

    And I don't understand your concern with copyright. If it relates to Birthright and we don't destroy the image of the world, I don't think WotC cares about how we expand the background of the setting. Religious rivalries are a rather important part of it.

    Sorontar

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Birthright-L View Post

    Of course, there are massive differences between the concept of saints and that of scions. (...) Given that BR scions have an actual connection to
    the gods--part of which is what makes a "saint" in the first
    place--there are at any time thousands of them running around, so
    there is ample fodder.
    Hmmm, scions as "saints"... Surely they are conected to gods,but I never think about them in that matter. Temples in my opinion don't bother about every one blooded person. I think that only few scions may be used as "Enlighted", "Blessed" or smthg like that. We should look to the history records to find that few characters, and maybe make some new, when i get my copy of BoP and end to crawl throu Wiki and forum i will see what we can do in that matter ; ]


    Quote Originally Posted by Birthright-L View Post
    (...) Two isn`t enough for any particular god/dess. At a guess, we
    should have 12-15 major (high?) holidays for the pantheon, and about
    three or four times that many as minor (low?) holidays.(...)

    I don`t know what one might do on "god death-rebirth day" but as the
    most important day of the setting`s background it seems like it would
    get some sort of attention....

    Yeap, i think about 4 major holidays for every god/dess, and here is place for discusions mentioned by Sorontar (Easter thing ; ] ) It may explain few "heresies". Minor holidays as remembrances of the patrons, some events from mytologies. They may be diferent for factions of one faith.

    Things like "god death - rebirth" should be nice, some form of Elysian misteries? I would like to renew infos about greek, roman and egyptian mithologies and their "church calendars"

    Quote Originally Posted by Birthright-L View Post
    The anniversary of Deismaar probably isn`t a "holiday" in the
    joyful/happy sense, but would likely be marked as an observance.
    Similarly, the anniversary of Michael Rhoele`s death would probably
    not go unnoticed, particularly in the Imperial City.

    Gary
    Right. As we can see in our world churches will (at least try) seize anniversaries and all things important to society ( check how the marriages came to church ; ] )
    About Michael Rhoele it's rather for Haelyns churches i think

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    At 07:48 PM 9/7/2010, docend wrote:

    >Hmmm, scions as "saints"... Surely they are conected to gods,but I
    >never think about them in that matter. Temples in my opinion don`t
    >bother about every one blooded person. I think that only few scions
    >may be used as "Enlighted", "Blessed" or smthg like that. We should
    >look to the history records to find that few characters, and maybe
    >make some new, when i get my copy of BoP and end to crawl throu Wiki
    >and forum i will see what we can do in that matter ; ]

    I only mentioned saints as an analogy for the way holidays are
    created. With only a few exceptions, I wouldn`t have temples in BR
    dedicated to individuals in the way that saints are
    venerated. Michael Rhoele might get a shrine... but I don`t think
    that Cerilians come to worship him or ask him to intercede on their
    behalf. In his case it wouldn`t be a place of worship so much as a
    memorial. In BR, the gods are actually elevated mortals, and the
    average cleric wields powers that can equate to some of the most
    outlandish real-world saintly miracles. In that context, scions are
    different, but I don`t see them being worshipped directly.

    The published materials do go to some length to describe regency in
    terms that one could read as worship, but I still don`t think that
    makes scions saints in the sense that we understand that
    term. Scions are merely touched, where saints are chosen. That
    alone should note the difference. That said, their activities are
    extensive enough that they would be noted by the population and
    commemorated as individuals. Just as the U.S. has Martin Luther King
    day and various other nations celebrate particular people, Cerilians
    would likely have a similar situation. I suppose the object of such
    a holiday being a commoner, but that seems unlikely.

    >>(...) Two isn`t enough for any particular god/dess. At a guess, we
    >>should have 12-15 major (high?) holidays for the pantheon, and
    >>about three or four times that many as minor (low?) holidays.(...)
    >>
    >>I don`t know what one might do on "god death-rebirth day" but as
    >>the most important day of the setting`s background it seems like it
    >>would get some sort of attention....
    >
    >Yeap, i think about 4 major holidays for every god/dess, and here is
    >place for discusions mentioned by Sorontar (Easter thing ; ] ) It
    >may explain few "heresies". Minor holidays as remembrances of the
    >patrons, some events from mytologies. They may be diferent for
    >factions of one faith.
    >
    >Things like "god death - rebirth" should be nice, some form of
    >Elysian misteries? I would like to renew infos about greek, roman
    >and egyptian mithologies and their "church calendars"

    Maybe rather than break it down by god/dess, it`d make more sense to
    break it up by culture. Those Rjurik who revere Erik are going to
    have a different take on him than might the Brecht, and vice versa.

    >About Michael Rhoele it`s rather for Haelyns churches i think

    Even more particularly, probably just Anuire....

    Gary

  9. #9
    Senior Member Mirviriam's Avatar
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    In the power structures of courts & provinces is more what I was thinking - fractions of people who back up each province ruler, who in turn supports regent of the realm.
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