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Thread: Taking 21+.

  1. #1
    Site Moderator geeman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    California, USA
    I`ve been fiddling around a lot with the 3e skill system recently (so much
    so that some folks might not think it really is the 3e skill system
    anymore) and I`m thinking of including a special "Take 21+" rule, described

    I bring this up on birthright-l for three reasons. First, it was inspired
    by some comments having to do with the Research skill I proposed a while
    back, so it`s at least tangentially related. Second, I`m curious what the
    folks on this list think of the rule in general and what it`s overall
    effects might be. Third, a domain action could represent either a massive,
    aided (by vassals, employees, etc.) skill check and/or tens or hundreds of
    individual skill checks related to a common purpose performed over the
    period of an action round. I`m suspecting that a rule like this will bleed
    into the realm level of play through domain actions.

    Comments welcome.


    Taking 21+
    Taking 21+ means you are dedicating even greater time and effort to the
    skill check, [than "taking 20"] meticulously checking every detail and
    making sure everything is done to the best of your ability. You decide
    what number you would like to use in place of the die roll and add that
    number to the total of your ranks, modifiers and bonuses for the skill
    check. Each digit above 20 takes an amount of time equal to the amount of
    time taking 20 on the skill check would normally take times a multiplier
    based on the target number for the skill check per the table below:

    Target Uninterrupted Interrupted
    Number Check Check
    21-25 x1 x2
    26-30 x5 x10
    31-40 x10 x15
    41-50 x20 x30

    Each digit over 20 takes an additional amount of time per the table
    above. For example, you want to take 20 on a skill check that normally
    takes 1 round. Taking 20 on such a skill check takes 20 rounds. Taking 21
    on that skill check will take another 20 rounds, for a total of 40
    rounds. If you take 25 on the skill check you add 20 rounds for each digit
    over twenty. Since taking 25 is 5 digits over 20 you add 100 rounds (5
    digits x 20 rounds) to the original 20 rounds for taking 20 giving a total
    of 120 rounds, or 12 minutes.
    Increasing the target number for the skill check costs more time per the
    table above. For target numbers from 26-30, for example, it takes x5 the
    typical time for taking 20 for each digit. The time multiplier increases
    as the target number increases. If you take 38 on a skill check that
    normally takes 1 round to perform you would at 20 rounds (for taking 20) +
    100 rounds (the 5 digits over 20 at x1) + 500 rounds (5 digits over 25 at
    x5) + 1,600 rounds (8 digits over 30 at x10) for a total of 2,220 rounds.
    Actions that are less than full round actions take 1 round for the
    purpose of taking 21+.
    Normally, you may not be interrupted when performing a skill check. In
    certain cases, such as a prolonged Research skill check, the DM may allow
    the period of the skill check to be broken up over an extended period of
    time. When taking 21+ on an interrupted skill check use the time
    multiplier in the interrupted column of the table above.
    When making skill checks that take more than eight hours, assume that
    each eight-hour period represents a day of work on the skill check, with
    breaks, lost time, etc. A skill check that requires 20 hours to will take
    two and one half "working" days to complete.

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  2. #2
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    BR mailing list
    On Tue, 14 May 2002, Gary wrote:

    > I`m thinking of including a special "Take 21+" rule, described below.

    Interesting, and possibly useful for some situations. Be sure to
    remember, however, that no matter how much time is spent on a task, it is
    impossible to achieve some results without sufficient skill + talent
    (which is what the usual skill modifier represents). The cliche about
    monkeys, typewriters and Shakespeare is not actually opposed to this, as
    the "eventually" in "one monkey randomly pressing keys will eventually
    write _Hamlet_" works out to "in a time immensely longer than the current
    age of the universe". Similarly, no number of attempts, nor even any
    amount of skill, will allow me to hit an archery target that is simply too
    far away for my bow to send an arrow.

    You also have the problem that skill may (indeed, should) not necessarily
    stay constant through so prolonged an effort -- if you spend thousands of
    times the normal duration of the task, even a failed attempt may well
    merit the award of an extra skill point based simply on those things that
    would naturally be learned through so much practice.

    Ryan Caveney

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  3. #3
    Site Moderator kgauck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Springfield Mo
    A 21+ is probabaly not the way to go. Ryan Caveney offered some points
    which would limit a useful Take 21+. What is probably a better way to go,
    is decent rules for cooperative action. Gary mentioned Realm Actions
    specifically, and I assume we could also talk about Research (a skill in
    Rogukgan) Actions. What I would introduce as the key factor is cooperative
    group effort. Let`s go ahead and add the Build Action to consideration

    You may recall that I posted a spell track for Sera. Part of what I was
    thinking of goes to the same situation. You have a castle under siege (lets
    call it Cariele Castle) and their are large numbers of people cooperating to
    repair damage to the castle, tend to the injured, manage supplies, and so

    I could see the Research, Build, and maybe even Diplomacy and other actions
    which reflect a leader`s skill check modified by the number and ability of

    Kenneth Gauck

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