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  1. #1
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    My players are children of the former lady of Coeranys, Eluviel Cariele. She
    hails from the country of Cariele, up in the north, and now my players have
    set their minds on reclaiming their land.

    My PCs are level 12 and we are playing 3E. They have a LOT of money and
    regency to spend, and fleets to transport troops with as well. They also
    have an alliance with Doesone (one PC is courting the ruler of Doesone for
    marriage).

    I was wondering if anyone has done any work detailing the guilds of the
    north, or can think of surprise strategies the rulers here can come up with?

    /Carl

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  2. #2
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    Carl Cramér wrote:

    >My players are children of the former lady of Coeranys, Eluviel Cariele. She
    >hails from the country of Cariele, up in the north, and now my players have
    >set their minds on reclaiming their land.
    >
    >My PCs are level 12 and we are playing 3E. They have a LOT of money and
    >regency to spend, and fleets to transport troops with as well. They also
    >have an alliance with Doesone (one PC is courting the ruler of Doesone for
    >marriage).
    >
    Glad to hear they have a LOT of GB (they`re really gonna need it - it`ll
    melt away like snow in hellfire trying to retake Cariele from Coeranys).
    One thing in their favor though is that the actual ruler of Cariele is
    pretty weak. The power behind the throne unfortunatly is most definately
    not. What faith will they have backing them ?

    Dhoesone really shouldn`t be much help unless things have changed
    dramatically. Dhoesone herself needs help far more than can hand it out
    - a weak but influential ally (better than none at all though especially
    if you need a staging point for troops). [I`m assuming that troops will
    be transported from Coeranys to Dhoesone by sea, moved to a staging
    point and attacking overland. Of course the required formal alliance
    between Dhoesone and Coeranys will give intentions away but I can`t see
    that Cariele can do anything to stop it.]

    Militarilly though, getting troops from Doesone to Cariele is one of
    those famous military impossibilities - hasn`t there been a couple of
    famous battles fought through that pass (or rather not through) ? You`re
    supposed to be able to hold it with a pack of boy scouts against the
    Gorgon`s own horde.

    >
    >I was wondering if anyone has done any work detailing the guilds of the
    >north, or can think of surprise strategies the rulers here can come up with?
    >
    From a GB and (depending on your interpreatation of the how RP is
    collected) RP point of view, Mheallie Bireon and the NRC are probably
    going to be able to match your players without much effort. Reclaiming
    the lost Five Peaks area (which I believe was once part of Cariele in
    any case) is probably both easier and smarter as a first move. Still,
    you are asking for moves against them ... hmmm, MB is probably pulling
    in 50+ GB per turn - can they match that ? -- if they can, it`ll be a
    worry. MB is about the 8th strongest regent in Anuire (just below Gavin
    Tael but above Mhoried) by my reckoning.

    Hire a great captain to defend the mountain passes. Perhaps even begin
    to fortify them. Personally, I don`t think even that is necessary - a
    military campaign by the players should fail, or even rebound on them,
    still better safe than sorry - I don`t think that MB leaves much to chance.

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  3. #3
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    Hello!

    Peter Lubke wrote:

    > Carl Cramér wrote:
    > ...

    > Militarilly though, getting troops from Doesone to Cariele is one of
    > those famous military impossibilities - hasn`t there been a couple of
    > famous battles fought through that pass (or rather not through) ? You`re
    > supposed to be able to hold it with a pack of boy scouts against the
    > Gorgon`s own horde.

    Yes, but this pass is on the other side of Cariele - the "Gates of Doom"
    (= Mhellivene) need not to be passed when you come from the north. They
    could march simply from Dhoesone into Riverford and take the capital of
    Caerlinien. The pass was only a problem for the anuirean armys who tried
    to pass through from the south.

    bye
    Michael

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  4. #4
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    What I`m really aiming for here are plots that the northern guilders could
    unleash on the players as they start to set up shop in the north. When
    everybody in the conflict is a guilder, military action will probably be
    seen as a last resort.

    Thanks for the ideas, especially the note about the pass; I`d forgotten how
    strategic the area is. Even if the pass does not ficure tactically when you
    come from the north, worries about a new power (the PCs) gaining control of
    the pass could prompt southern lords into action.

    This is a high-level game (12th). The PC count of Coeranys IMC is a rogue,
    and controls guild holdings, trade routes and provinces. He collects well
    over 50 GB each turn. In addition, he has several vassals (both PCs and
    NPCs) that each collect 20-50 GB each turn. So yes, the do have the
    resources. The players control Coeranys, Caercorwyn (the island in the bay
    of Coeranys) and recently the Chimaeron. They have major influence in
    Roesone, Eleine, Osoerede and Baruk-Azhik. So these players are not whimps,
    either politically or personally.

    However, Cariele could have developed as well during the meantime, so the
    ruler there could be more powerful than outlined in Ruins of Empire if I
    wish him to be.

    The daughter of Darien Avan (can`t remember the name now, she is from Sword
    and Crown) detests the PCs after having been snubbed, so she will use her
    influence to hurt them. The chancelor of the Imperial City distrust them,
    because the count has an Azrai bloodline. I also have Warlock of the
    Stonecrows, which takes place nearby, and am thinking of a collaboration
    between the various villains.

    Distance is also a factor; I have arbitarily doubled the RP cost of all
    actions taken so far away from home.

    My PCs have troops enough to invade (even if most of them are tied up in the
    Chimeradon right now), but the thrust of this campaign will be a guild
    infiltration - taking over guild holdings, intruige and espionage, alliances
    with the lesser guilders, takeover of trade routes.

    One player plays an adventuress (fighter) with no holdings. She will move
    her adventures into Cariele to establish a reputation and gain contacts.

    Simultaneously, the rogue will try to court various factions in the north
    for alliances (mainly Stjordviik Traders) and start up guild operations as
    possible.

    The half-elven bard will court the baroness of Dhoesone for marriage and
    alliance.

    As a sideline, the marshal of Coeranys and main military leader among the
    PCs wants to recruit a force of ogres as an elite guard, so he will probably
    go here more or less independently to pursue that goal.



    /Carl

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  5. #5
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    In a message dated 5/5/02 7:07:56 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
    carl.cramer@HOME.SE writes:

    << I was wondering if anyone has done any work detailing the guilds of the
    north, or can think of surprise strategies the rulers here can come up with?
    >>

    A little bit, centering on Dhoesone. I noticed that some of the guilds
    control Law there, I postulate that is from a inactive Baroness-- the guilds
    have bought off the local sheriffs.
    Dhoesone, if she can be prodded to action, should make a good ally-- she
    can shut down MB`s holdings in her land, and block off any river/sea trade
    routes.
    Your players might need two more allies, or at least neutrals, to help:
    Mhoried to close off help from the south and the Oaken Grove. With the
    druids on their side, it might be easier to hire Rjurik mercenaries to march
    from the north.
    Do you, as a DM, have some limit to the number of mercenary troops that
    can be hired? If so, perhaps your players would be wise to hire a bunch
    before the guilds figure out what is going on, to keep them off the market.
    {Someday, I`d like to detail the Cerilian mercenary trade, hiring halls,
    historic regiments, etc. Probably a hangover from my wild`n`crazy youth
    playing BattleTech.}

    Lee.

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  6. #6
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    Michael Romes wrote:

    > Hello!
    >
    > Peter Lubke wrote:
    >
    >> Carl Cramér wrote:
    >> ...
    >
    >
    >> Militarilly though, getting troops from Doesone to Cariele is one of
    >> those famous military impossibilities - hasn`t there been a couple of
    >> famous battles fought through that pass (or rather not through) ? You`re
    >> supposed to be able to hold it with a pack of boy scouts against the
    >> Gorgon`s own horde.
    >
    >
    > Yes, but this pass is on the other side of Cariele - the "Gates of Doom"
    > (= Mhellivene) need not to be passed when you come from the north. They
    > could march simply from Dhoesone into Riverford and take the capital of
    > Caerlinien. The pass was only a problem for the anuirean armys who tried
    > to pass through from the south.

    okay, thanks for the correction Michael. I wasn`t sure exactly where it
    was - I had thought it had defeated an elven army at least once, so I
    was assuming that was from the eastern side. ** consults the map
    finally ** Still, that`s a major river that has to be crossed from
    Tradebhein and/or Ruidewash, a not inconsiderable obstacle itself.

    Question for the group: "Declare War", is perhaps misnamed - should be
    "Conduct Offensive", but never mind that - I`d assume that a Declare War
    action could declare war against any number of regents, not just one.
    This would allow you four weeks of offensive maneuvers against any
    and/or all the regents that you declared against. But, I feel that there
    should be an increased cost by the number of regents (unless the regents
    are formally allied - thus declaring against a single alliance, or if
    the regents were severally or cojointly currently conducting an
    offensive against the phasing regent).

    Comments ?

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  7. #7
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    Here are some things I`ve been setting up in that region -

    There is a movement afoot in places like Stjordvik, Talanie, and Dhoesone
    called Holn`s Companionship. In response to guilders like Storm Holtson and
    Mheallie Bireon, some druids in Aeric`s Oaken Grove and Haelyn`s temples
    (both the Northern Imperial and Bastion of Truth) have been working
    together. Many druids in Brant`s Oaken Grove have come to believe that a
    strong law wielded by a single powerful, landed regent is the best way to
    uphold Erik`s teachings about natural resources. For one thing, its easy to
    hold a king accountable. Jarls, counts, and guilders can always just point
    the finger at the other guy, but its the hope of Holn`s Companionship that a
    single powerful king, holding most or all of the law would be someone the
    druids could apply some pressure on. In Talinie, the priests of Haelyn have
    been supporters of the druid`s point of view *on resource stewardship*
    questions. Since the druids are willing to pick their battles, they have
    been satisfied to see their principles upheld, even if it is by means of law
    holdings and sheriffs rather than druids. In fact, Talanie has embraced as
    a motto a line from Lofnhilda`s Saga, where the archdruid Maelnir Greenbough
    enjoins the people of Halskapa to "enjoy without grasping". The alliance
    between some druids of Erik and some priests of Haelyn has proven successful
    where the priests of Haelyn are content to confine their influence to the
    nature of the crown and state, and the druids are content to confine their
    influence to sustainable natural resources policy. Both parties can
    generally agree in other areas, but pursue their common goals in their
    different ways, and agree to disagree on other issues. As long as guilders
    like Holtson and Bireon are exploiting the land, Holn`s Companionship will
    have a reason to exist.

    Storm Holtson and Mheallie Bireon are birds of a feather, but they are both
    after the same thing - control of Dhoesone`s commerce, and this has led them
    into the openings of a guild war. Larra Nielems (of the Northern Reformed
    Church of Sarimie) has tried to mediate a modus vivendi between the
    headstrong guilders, but it does not appear to be working. Larra Nielems
    fears that if Stjordovik Traders and the Northlands Exchange exhaust each
    other in a guild war, the Holn`s Companionship forces will be able to bring
    the knights and the law priests and the barbarians and the druids together
    and drive the profit-minded guilds out of Dhoesone. The druids and law
    priests, who used to hold sway in Cariele haven`t quite been driven out of
    that county, so Larra Nielems would prefer to be on the offensive in
    Dhoesone before Holtson and Bireon quarreled, rather than to remain still
    vulnerable in Cariele. Both Günther Brant and Anita Maricoere have set
    aside sufficient RP`s to protect their 0-level holdings in Cariele. At the
    moment, neither Brant nor Maricoere are subscribers to the idea of a
    Holn-Erik alliance embodied in the doctrine of Holn`s Companionship. Larra
    Nielems is aware that if the temples of Erik, or just the whole of the Oaken
    Grove, and the temples of Haelyn, even just in the northern marches, were to
    form a real alliance, she would pushed out and the cause of profit, material
    wealth, and its benefits would be lost to the people of the region.
    Fortunately for Nielems, she has a concert of interests with Torias Griene.
    Griene is more devoted to his own power and is not willing to put his place
    in Talinie at risk for greater objectives against the temples of Haelyn and
    Erik, but he has his uses.

    There is talk among the law priests and druids of Holn`s Companionship that
    a rivalry between Holtson and Bireon is a just a fasade to draw out the
    enemies of the guilds where they can be identified and crushed. They
    suspect that Holtson and Bireon have already agreed to a partition of
    Dhoesone and only play at quarreling to keep everyone else off balance.

    The Baroness of Dhoesone considers herself in a terribly vulnerable
    possition, and is mostly unwilling to risk making anyone openly hostile.
    Her one real ally, Tuarhievel has made it clear that its support is designed
    to create a safe area to her rear while the Thorn Crown devotes its
    attentions to their frontier with the Gorgon. As such, the baroness has
    made treaties with Thurazor and Stjordvik. She has tried to make peace,
    even at very favorable terms, with the Blood Skull Barony (called the Barony
    of the Crimson Skull in Anuire) but Thrakkazz, the Scarlet Baron, smells
    weakness and will have no peace. The Baroness of Dhoesone does not realize
    this, but the alliance with the Tie`akar Graecher in Thurazor is worthless,
    because the tide in that realm is turning against the humans as Kral Two
    Toes preaches crusade. On the other hand, the alliance with Stjordvik is
    worth far more than it would appear to be. While King Varri plays the pawn,
    he is in fact a canny creature and would be a reliable friend against the
    Blood Skull Barony or the exploitive guilders.

    Have fun.

    Kenneth Gauck
    kgauck@mchsi.com

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  8. #8
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    Carl Cramér wrote:

    >What I`m really aiming for here are plots that the northern guilders could
    >unleash on the players as they start to set up shop in the north. When
    >everybody in the conflict is a guilder, military action will probably be
    >seen as a last resort.
    >
    >Thanks for the ideas, especially the note about the pass; I`d forgotten how
    >strategic the area is. Even if the pass does not ficure tactically when you
    >come from the north, worries about a new power (the PCs) gaining control of
    >the pass could prompt southern lords into action.
    >
    >This is a high-level game (12th). The PC count of Coeranys IMC is a rogue,
    >and controls guild holdings, trade routes and provinces. He collects well
    >over 50 GB each turn. In addition, he has several vassals (both PCs and
    >NPCs) that each collect 20-50 GB each turn. So yes, the do have the
    >resources. The players control Coeranys, Caercorwyn (the island in the bay
    >of Coeranys) and recently the Chimaeron. They have major influence in
    >Roesone, Eleine, Osoerede and Baruk-Azhik. So these players are not whimps,
    >either politically or personally.
    >
    >However, Cariele could have developed as well during the meantime, so the
    >ruler there could be more powerful than outlined in Ruins of Empire if I
    >wish him to be.
    >
    >The daughter of Darien Avan (can`t remember the name now, she is from Sword
    >and Crown) detests the PCs after having been snubbed, so she will use her
    >influence to hurt them. The chancelor of the Imperial City distrust them,
    >because the count has an Azrai bloodline. I also have Warlock of the
    >Stonecrows, which takes place nearby, and am thinking of a collaboration
    >between the various villains.
    >
    >Distance is also a factor; I have arbitarily doubled the RP cost of all
    >actions taken so far away from home.
    >
    >My PCs have troops enough to invade (even if most of them are tied up in the
    >Chimeradon right now), but the thrust of this campaign will be a guild
    >infiltration - taking over guild holdings, intruige and espionage, alliances
    >with the lesser guilders, takeover of trade routes.
    >
    >One player plays an adventuress (fighter) with no holdings. She will move
    >her adventures into Cariele to establish a reputation and gain contacts.
    >
    >Simultaneously, the rogue will try to court various factions in the north
    >for alliances (mainly Stjordviik Traders) and start up guild operations as
    >possible.
    >
    >The half-elven bard will court the baroness of Dhoesone for marriage and
    >alliance.
    >
    >As a sideline, the marshal of Coeranys and main military leader among the
    >PCs wants to recruit a force of ogres as an elite guard, so he will probably
    >go here more or less independently to pursue that goal.
    >
    Given all that you say, wouldn`t it be more likely a case of "while the
    cat`s away the mice will play" ? Such an eastern empire in the making
    can`t not have caught the eye of Ghoere and the Highland/Overland
    Traders. I`ve long considered Osoerde a much easier target for Ghoere
    than Roesone, Mhoried etc. Your players might succeed in Cariele only to
    find Ghoere camped on the outskirts of Ruorven. The strong backing for
    Cuiraecen in Ghoere and the eastern marches is a dangerous mixture to
    underestimate. Let them fight on two fronts and see how they like it.
    (muhhahhahaa)

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  9. #9
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    I agree on the name of the domain action (though it`s not important enough
    to merit a change), but I don`t agree that it should cost you more to
    conduct offensive opperations agains several enemies. Perhaps the cost of
    the action should vary depending on the number of troops you employ? But
    then again, moving troops costs money in and of itself.

    /Carl

    Peter Lubke <peterlubke@OPTUSNET.COM.AU> wrote at 02-05-07 02.46:

    > Question for the group: "Declare War", is perhaps misnamed - should be
    > "Conduct Offensive", but never mind that - I`d assume that a Declare War
    > action could declare war against any number of regents, not just one.
    > This would allow you four weeks of offensive maneuvers against any
    > and/or all the regents that you declared against. But, I feel that there
    > should be an increased cost by the number of regents (unless the regents
    > are formally allied - thus declaring against a single alliance, or if
    > the regents were severally or cojointly currently conducting an
    > offensive against the phasing regent).
    >
    > Comments ?

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  10. #10
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    Peter Lubke <peterlubke@OPTUSNET.COM.AU> wrote at 02-05-07 05.16:

    > Given all that you say, wouldn`t it be more likely a case of "while the
    > cat`s away the mice will play" ? Such an eastern empire in the making
    > can`t not have caught the eye of Ghoere and the Highland/Overland
    > Traders. I`ve long considered Osoerde a much easier target for Ghoere
    > than Roesone, Mhoried etc. Your players might succeed in Cariele only to
    > find Ghoere camped on the outskirts of Ruorven. The strong backing for
    > Cuiraecen in Ghoere and the eastern marches is a dangerous mixture to
    > underestimate. Let them fight on two fronts and see how they like it.
    > (muhhahhahaa)

    My players think they are actually on the good side of Ghoere (they are
    wrong). When the old regime in Osoerde was put down, Ghoere invaded western
    Osoerde at te eleventh hour. Only by reestablishing the old monarchy in
    Osoerde did the players mannage to ost Ghoere`s influence, and he has been
    gauaranteed some guild holdings in eastern Osoere to use as a port, and fee
    transit to and fom these holdings.

    The deposed baron of Osoerde still lives, having fled to the southern
    continent.

    So this is a very good idea, at least if the players decide to move a large
    number of troops. I think a return of the old baron of Osoerde, secretly
    backed by Ghoere money and influence, is the best bet. Deniable and all.

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