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Thread: Questions...

  1. #1
    Senior Member Mirviriam's Avatar
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    Questions...

    I've been making a list of questions as I ponder birthright's 3rd Edition or D20 system. Answer them by number please if you could. I'm just going to take the ones that get the most replies or make the most sense if all have the same number of supporting posts.

    1. What stops an archmage from going out in to battle and casting a metaspelled icestorm or similar 6th level plus area of effect spell that can kill men by the unit?
    2. How do evil rulers collect RP...since people on this forum have argued that evil regents wouldn't get RP = law holdings & no one corrected them?
    3. Page 107 "...not gain any regency until all other claiments are deafed and a ceremony of Coronation is preformed..." does this mean investure spell too?
    4. When resolving automatic battles do you apply a spell bonus for each calculation of damage that the caster has spells left?
    5. Caerbhaighlien are created by the source in an area, while they are unclaimable, can they be encourged to grow directly, like normal source holdings?
    6. Does anyone have list of these types of Caerbhaighlien in Cerilia
    7. Do wonderous works & public works transfer when when a province is seized?
    8. Can subterfuge and army moves without roleplay take province fortifications intact?
    9. Do the province level fortifications protect a sum of levels or x levels up to their total level? (say level 3 province fortifcation, does it protect all holdings up to level 3 or just 3 holding levels in any arrangement)?
    10. Why aren't source holdings limited to a max source spent per turn if province levels limit the max army mustered per turn?
    11. Shadow block spell doesn't interfere with druid's Summon Nature's Army as it's a transmutation spell correct?
    12. Why isn't Summon Nature's Army spell an enchantment or MindControl category?
    13. Was Shadow Block intended to block StrongHold spell?
    14. If Shadow Block is in effect does it block use of ley lines for transport spells not beginning or ending inside of the blocked province?
    15. Page 142 it says that ley line sunder spell has RP equal to sum of the 2 sources connected...but in page 108 it syas that, "A ley line may be forged from a province where you hold a high-level source to one in which you hold a low-level source, or to a province in which you hold no sources at all." Can we have a line to where no free sources remain, or is this just saying we can connect to a source which is not claimed? Was it intended as it was wrote?
    16. Do we have a rating system for rivers beyond the rivers allowing seagoing vessel block bridges?
    17. If there are secret holdings in a province, does the espinage check have to be geared to seeking out hidden holdings or will it automatically reveal if the DC is met?
      Edit found some more:
    18. Regarding sense regent...Why does the spell not give some warning(even Scry spell gives warning)...is it because it's like the ranger/wizard sense of finding sources & determining owners, but for anyone the spell is granted too?
    19. If Sense Regent really is explained by watching flows of magic in the realm, why did we not follow that to it's logical conclusion, making a spell that allows us to see who is loyally contributing RP to the regent when he is in the room or within a mile, masking spell to hide / decoy / confuse location(beyond the 4 anti-spell spells already exiting) or if the flows of RP/caerbhaighl are visible with sense regent; why not have one to tell when a domain spell is being prepared in your realm or simply assume mages/priests/clerics can see the flows as an innate ability?
    20. Why are there no spells that specifically block whispering winds, magic mirror links etc on the domain spell list?
    Last edited by Mirviriam; 08-10-2009 at 06:32 AM.

  2. #2
    Member Agelmore's Avatar
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    Don't have an idea for all your questions:

    1-Nothing stop him, if he really want, this is why there is rules to determinate the effectivness of any character class in the battle scale (Cf. Hero Unit)

    The real question is what stop an archmage from participating many battle and win thanks to battle spell:
    Interest: For some archimage , the study of magic is the real goal. This is why many wizard will not participate in warfare.
    Humanity : mass effect weapon and ethical problem
    caution,paranoia :being present onthe battlefield is dangerous
    avarice: Spell cost
    Time: time spend in the battlefield and traning with military skills is time not spend in laboratory
    Nature danger: Some Elf think meblaigh and nature can be damaged by heavy spell
    Not the real Goal: The Gorgon don't care with ethical problem, study magic to earn more power, fear only few beeing on Cerilia, has an enormous treasure, don't care about nature...And yes he goes into battle but not often as he can because it do not serve his real goal.

    2-They collect RP.
    3-Yes
    8- Don't understand
    10-Not sure to understand what a source spends ?
    12-I consider Summon Nature's Army a Conuration(Summoning) spell as the conventionnal druid spell
    16-Don't understand
    17-It depend on the DM choice
    20- Domain spell => Trickery 3 : nondetection
    Realm spell : Only few realm spell are present here.
    Agelmore Tallow, Lord Prefect of Alamier (MA;Br,Major,21;LG)

  3. #3
    Birthright Developer irdeggman's Avatar
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    Let's see if I can help

    1 - well there was a conscious decision when the BRCS was put together to remove the individual PC actions from the battle as a whole.

    They are inserted as a "Heroe's Unit" to provide the bonuses they give.

    For spells to be useful on the battle field they require more than mere large area effects - you have to be able to avoid collateral damage and such (which is why the battle caster feat was created.

    If you want to play a PC against a group of people then use the "zoom in" option and role-play smaller conflicts but not an entire battle.

    2 - Who are you referreing to that talk about no law holding for evil rulers?

    Evil rulers get RP just like non-evil ones only it comes from fealty and not "trust".

    3 - an investure spell is only necessary for transferring of bloodlines not regency (that is why it is a ceremony and not a realm action)

    4 - Automatic resolution should only be used for "units" and not for individuals.

    5 - no they are "special" and a function of the land itself, like an artifact.

    6 - not me

    7 - good question - DM's call on this one since it should depend on the wondrous structure itself. A temple to Haelyn wouldn't trasfer to an usurper of Kreisha. It is situation based IMO.

    20 - as pointed out the list is not all-inclusive and in fact all realm spells require research and are "unique". Think like an epic spell no 2 are exactly alike even if they have the same effect.

    I'll try to get to the rest as time allows.
    Duane Eggert

  4. #4
    Site Moderator AndrewTall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mirviriam View Post
    [*]How do evil rulers collect RP...since people on this forum have argued that evil regents wouldn't get RP = law holdings & no one corrected them?
    They often are corrected - but it depends on the thread. RP is imo a mix of love, fear, awe, belonging etc not just love - I'd expect evil rulers to lose power quickly if they suffer a major defeat, but then true evil never dies... that's about all

    Quote Originally Posted by Mirviriam View Post
    [*]Caerbhaighlien are created by the source in an area, while they are unclaimable, can they be encourged to grow directly, like normal source holdings?[*]Does anyone have list of these types of Caerbhaighlien in Cerilia
    Nope, they are purely a fluff point from BoM I think - useful for Mcguffin's, that's it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mirviriam View Post
    [*]Do wonderous works & public works transfer when when a province is seized?
    Why would they? Other builds aren't as the holding only reflects a fraction of the wealth of the province - that's why they are so cheap. I'd say that they are tied to the holding, and become dormant if the holding is destroyed, slowly collapsing if not maintained - of course if 'buying' the holding they could be included in the deal - and factored into the price...

    Quote Originally Posted by Mirviriam View Post
    [*]Can subterfuge and army moves without roleplay take province fortifications intact?
    Why not? Of course if you have time I'd recommend roleplay, but otherwise espionage and the like should still work fine - but be prone to leaving very annoyed players if their expensive castles seem to be easily stolen...

    Quote Originally Posted by Mirviriam View Post
    [*]Do the province level fortifications protect a sum of levels or x levels up to their total level? (say level 3 province fortifcation, does it protect all holdings up to level 3 or just 3 holding levels in any arrangement)?
    On the grounds that a holding fort at half the cost covers the holdings of a single holding type, I'd say that a province castle covers all holdings levels up to its own - you could be more refined and say a L3 castle protects 3 law holding levels, 3 guild levels, etc rather than 'the first three holding levels' but that might be a bit overly complex.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mirviriam View Post
    [*]Why aren't source holdings limited to a max source spent per turn if province levels limit the max army mustered per turn?
    A pet peeve of mine, not only would I introduce that llimit, I'd actually reduce the source level to reflect the immense drain of mebhaighl - let it return at 1-2 levels a season tops...

    Quote Originally Posted by Mirviriam View Post
    [*]If Shadow Block is in effect does it block use of ley lines for transport spells not beginning or ending inside of the blocked province?
    Makes sense.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mirviriam View Post
    [*]Page 142 it says that ley line sunder spell has RP equal to sum of the 2 sources connected...but in page 108 it syas that, "A ley line may be forged from a province where you hold a high-level source to one in which you hold a low-level source, or to a province in which you hold no sources at all." Can we have a line to where no free sources remain, or is this just saying we can connect to a source which is not claimed? Was it intended as it was wrote?
    It should probably say the 2 source holdings connected - and yes you can have a temporary line to a L- source (not even a L0) - it just fades after a round. Not sure I like the rule mind and it should probably only be allowed for very short distances...

    Quote Originally Posted by Mirviriam View Post
    [*]Do we have a rating system for rivers beyond the rivers allowing seagoing vessel block bridges?
    Not that I am aware of.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mirviriam View Post
    [*]If there are secret holdings in a province, does the espinage check have to be geared to seeking out hidden holdings or will it automatically reveal if the DC is met?
    DM's call I think, but make it too wide and they pick up everything. I'd say they have to be looking at holding levels, trade routes, etc to start with - otherwise the DC should be significantly higher at least.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mirviriam View Post
    [*]If Sense Regent really is explained by watching flows of magic in the realm, why did we not follow that to it's logical conclusion, making a spell that allows us to see who is loyally contributing RP to the regent when he is in the room or within a mile, masking spell to hide / decoy / confuse location(beyond the 4 anti-spell spells already exiting) or if the flows of RP/caerbhaighl are visible with sense regent; why not have one to tell when a domain spell is being prepared in your realm or simply assume mages/priests/clerics can see the flows as an innate ability?
    RP from any one person is so small as to probably be undetectable - a vassal however might have a visible flow of RP points. Several DMs do let a wizard/priest know when realm spells are being cast, and that sounds reasonable...

  5. #5
    Senior Member Mirviriam's Avatar
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    Thanks Rowan ... I'm going to work on some things for a bit & wait before I draw too many conclusions!
    Legacy of Kings: Member

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    Birthright Developer irdeggman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mirviriam View Post

    10. Why aren't source holdings limited to a max source spent per turn if province levels limit the max army mustered per turn?
    Because the function differently. Realm spells are limited by the source level available and they must be connected via a ley lne in order to use a higher level source to power the realm spell.

    Basically you can't cast a realm spell that requires a higher level source in the province unless it is connected to a higher level source.

    Pretty much the only function of RP based on sources is for powering realm spells.

    Spending RP to support actions functions exactly like it would for any other holding type - basically you can put in as much RP as you have as long as you have a holding.


    11. Why isn't Summon Nature's Army spell an enchantment or Mind Control category?
    Unless I am mistaken it matches the summon nature's ally standard spell which is not an enchantment or Mind Control spell. So it should match the standard 3.5 category of the base spell.

    1. 15. Page 142 it says that ley line sunder spell has RP equal to sum of the 2 sources connected...but in page 108 it syas that, "A ley line may be forged from a province where you hold a high-level source to one in which you hold a low-level source, or to a province in which you hold no sources at all." Can we have a line to where no free sources remain, or is this just saying we can connect to a source which is not claimed? Was it intended as it was wrote?
    It should be the average of the source holdings (us 0 for the endpoint if it does not connect actual source holdings. And yes you can connect a ley line to a province without a holding - it does not connect 2 source holdings (unlike a trade route). This was also the method in the 2nd ed material.
    Duane Eggert

  7. #7
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    I'll try to give my opinions on some things that I don't think have been answered yet, or that I disagree with answers on

    1. Many of those area spells really don't actually affect a whole unit. It would depend on the formation. If you've got 200 men in ranks 20 wide and 10 deep, each man taking up 5 feet on any side, you've got 100ft x 50ft to hit. Wider in skirmish order, narrower in shield wall formation. But a larger problem is that range on those spells is limited--well within charging distance and bowshot. Getting that wizard close is a problem. The game-breaking exception is the flying improved invisibility guy, but even then you should see the origin point of the spell.

    4. No. Use hero units or roleplay it out. I don't see any reasonable way to get down into spell lists otherwise.

    9. I believe the standard rule is that it protects two holdings up to its level.

    10. There is a limit. A source can only be used for one realm spell a month--realm spells take a month to cast, so they are occupied the whole month.

    13. No. Stronghold is transmuting existing materials into a fortification. It has nothing to do with the Shadow World.

    14. No. Transport specifically uses mebhaigl, not the Shadow World, to transport people.

    15. A ley line can connect to any province. If you have a holding, it can be maintained. If you don't have a holding, it is temporary.

    16. There are published maps in PBEMs that propose what major rivers are navigable by vessels of various hull sizes.

    17. Espionage depends a lot on the DM. I am in favor of any action instigated by an Espionage action (such as a hidden holding or a generated event, or the very fact that someone was spying on you) requires a specific Espionage action in response to discover. General information not caused or hidden by Espionage actions should be accessible through a general spying roll.

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