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  1. #1
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    How do you like 4E?

    Hello friends,

    beeing away for some time, I would like to ask the Birthright community what they think about the 4E-D&D.
    Any discussions so far? I already have seen that there is a 4E Birthright project in the pipeline.



    Cheers,
    Azrai
    (reappearing...)
    my purpose is now to lead you into the Pallace where you shall have a clear and delightful view of all those various objects, and scattered excellencies, that lye up and down upon the face of creation, which are only seen by those that go down into the Seas, and by no other....

  2. #2
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    At 04:38 PM 6/14/2009, Azrai wrote:

    >Hello friends,

    Hi back atcha.

    >beeing away for some time, I would like to ask the Birthright
    >community what they think about the 4E-D&D.
    >
    >Any discussions so far? I already have seen that there is a 4E
    >Birthright project in the pipeline.

    Responses have been pretty mixed. Personally, I think it has some
    good stuff in it... but not a lot that really screams "conversion!"
    for Birthright. In general, I find myself drifting away from the
    kind of play that seems to be the assumption by the 4e designers, so
    I don`t have a real big need to invest in this particular incarnation
    of the game.

    Gary

  3. #3
    Birthright Developer irdeggman's Avatar
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    I pretty much agree with Gary on this one.

    The evolution of D&D is going in a way that doesn't appeal to me as a player.

    But there does seem to be some good things in the "new" system.

    I have learned to "love" what 3.5 did to the game.

    4th ed seems to be geared towards newer and younger players so for the company that is a good thing, for us "old folks" not so much.
    Duane Eggert

  4. #4
    I have mixed emotions regarding 4e. I know that it is supposed to be easier, but I fins it more complex. I am also not a big fan of the, "everyone is equal, down with randomness," school of RPG design. That said, my friends are all 4e fans, and I have no huge qualms with the system.

    I am currently writing a home brew 4e conversion for Birthright which includes many pieces I have blatantly stolen from the hard work others have done on this site. I am restarting a campaign my friends and I abandoned six years ago, and they have asked for it to be run in 4e, so I will oblige their request.

    All things said, I was more of a fan of 3.0, but that's just me.

  5. #5
    4E has become my favourite edition by far. It takes the many problems I had with 3.5E and gets rid of them. It has an older edition feel to it with a new edition mechanics which is really good for me. I've not felt as much fun running or playing a game since 2E! If I could just get myself into gear and do a full Birthright conversion then I probably wouldn't need anything else.

  6. #6
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    So, there you go, a pretty good range of opinions on 4e in just a few
    posts.... Nice.

    More power to those interested in a 4e BR conversion. I`m always
    interested in seeing how conversions work. Not being much of a 4e
    fan, though, I can`t really contribute much to such a project, though.

    Gary

  7. #7
    Site Moderator AndrewTall's Avatar
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    3e had its flaws, as does every game, but at least I felt it was trying to simulate a world. It got bloated, and had a few mechanic failures, but mainly it seemed versatile enough for a number of styles of play - 4e seems lacking outside of combat - assuming you spend as much time talking as fighting, which would grossly over-state the amount of combat in most games that I've played - you are still missing half the game. Social interaction mechanics are quite possible to build and like any functional mechanic free the DM to build a better world rather than referee, and don't get me started on the 4e approach to economics...

  8. #8
    Ehrshegh of Spelling Thelandrin's Avatar
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    I agree with Andrew. With 3rd Edition, there was an awful lot of differing play styles you can achieve and still enjoy the game, without necessarily getting away from the dungeon mechanic entirely. In 4th Edition, in my opinion, if you dump the dungeon mechanics, there isn't a game left at all.

    Ius Hibernicum, in nomine juris. Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum sonatur.

  9. #9
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    Well I think that most should know that I am a fan of 4e. Yes there are some flaws but all editions have their flaws. I think 4e is the easiest by far. As a DM I think that I have to look at the books once or twice in a full day gaming session. Before I could spend a good hour or so of time looking rules etc up.

    I currently use the character builder for my players and it prints out all of their powers, calculates their attackes etc. Pretty much just use the printed out character sheet and powers and don't have to pick up the books. So much easier and streamlined.

    That said it does have its flaws. Yes economics are crap but they have never been good in any addition, and don't get me started on how much a horse can carry.


    Quote Originally Posted by Alexander Cecil View Post
    I have mixed emotions regarding 4e. I know that it is supposed to be easier, but I fins it more complex. I am also not a big fan of the, "everyone is equal, down with randomness," school of RPG design. That said, my friends are all 4e fans, and I have no huge qualms with the system.

    I am currently writing a home brew 4e conversion for Birthright which includes many pieces I have blatantly stolen from the hard work others have done on this site.
    If you are working on a home brew 4e conversion and using stuff already posted, I would love it if you contributed as well. Pass on your ideas and it can inspire others in areas they might not thought of.

  10. #10
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    I'm a big fan of 4e. I think it's the best version of D&D mechanically, by far. I also think it's the easiest to customize and does succeed in being simpler to play and run.

    I also think 4e is strong outside of combat with the skill challenge system. This has been extensively supported on the WotC website and will, I hope, continue to be expanded. Skill challenges, IMO, provide a much more robust system for non-combat resolution than D&D has ever had before, honoring things outside of combat with XP. In this way, I think 4e is actually the best version yet for low-combat gamers.

    I do find that 4e's flavor assumptions are rather strong. I think these can be offputting to a lot of people, as 4e assumes a very flashy, cosmopolitan, high fantasy approach. But this is just flavor. For people who are creative and used to making their own settings and adventures and defining their own flavor, this should not be an impediment.

    I would include in that "flavor" criticism the default 4e assumptions of common racial intermixing, races as more definitely alien rather than variants on humans, the "economy," magic item acquisition, many power descriptions, and general lack of combat grittiness (crippling wounds, long recovery times, etc). I believe all of these have fixes, though. Racial segregation and racism is easy to introduce, as is disallowing certain races that don't fit your flavor and altering appearances (such as making genasi bear only subtle elemental traits and skin patterns; tieflings having an "edge" about them, a darting shadow, an inhuman glint to the eye, subtly pointed teeth and/or fingernails, rather than horns and tails; devas without blue skin; etc). The economy can readily be fixed to suit, as can power descriptions. And I have several levels of "grittiness" that I've developed to make wounding more meaningful.

    So my reaction to 4e is to praise its many mechanical superiorities and to do what I've always done with flavor issues--scrap the default and make my own. I feel that it can support just as many if not more play styles as previous editions if people are just willing to make it their own like they're used to doing with previous editions.

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