Playing along the Tael Firth

[kgauck]

This is probably the greatest impediment to a Rjurik campaign as written; although the land and its people are compelling and interesting, they lack the dynamic of everyone trying to reach for a goal--or indeed, trying to coordinate to solve a crisis--outside of outright ambition. And political ambition is frowned upon in traditional Rjurik society.

Other than the White Witch, the Siren, and the Blood Skull Barony, I might agree with you, but the internal tensions of every realm, Jarls and Kings, Settled and Nomadic, and the normal political factions, combined with the constant problems caused by the White Witch and Blood Skull Barony make the Highlands a very interesting location. Throw in a bad-boy realm like Rjuvik, some personal feuds, and a few quest items to go hunting for and you have a region as interesting as any you will find anywhere.

The dynamic of everyone reaching for the same goal or responding to the same crisis is frankly boring. A diversity of challenges and situations makes for much richer potential of interesting situations.

[Sorontar]

Indeed, I have found that even Birthright adventure campaigns should not assume that everyone wants to revive the Anuirean Empire. Not everyone is Anuirean after all and some cultures regret ever being part of the empire.

For this reason, my Rjurik character wanted to destroy the sword of Roele not save it. He was against the symbolism that it held.

The Rjurik Highlands also have the "traditional vs progressive" issue that is evident in the differences between the Oaken Grove and the Emerald Spiral. A similar issue has been applied to the Vos (nona vs torva). These are not nationalistic issues. These are more philosophical than that. I can see it having major affect on expansion plans, trade routes and the use of resources, etc.

Sorontar

[InVinoVeritas]

Other than the White Witch, the Siren, and the Blood Skull Barony, I might agree with you, but the internal tensions of every realm, Jarls and Kings, Settled and Nomadic, and the normal political factions, combined with the constant problems caused by the White Witch and Blood Skull Barony make the Highlands a very interesting location. Throw in a bad-boy realm like Rjuvik, some personal feuds, and a few quest items to go hunting for and you have a region as interesting as any you will find anywhere.

The dynamic of everyone reaching for the same goal or responding to the same crisis is frankly boring. A diversity of challenges and situations makes for much richer potential of interesting situations.

Overall, I agree, but I guess I am blinded by the types of games I've played in Birthright.

For an adventure-based campaign, I agree, a diversity of plot hooks makes for a very interesting setting, and the Rjurik Highlands has that aplenty. However, I have played far more the regent-based campaign, with the individual PCs playing characters that do not adventure together naturally. As a result, more effort must be placed in understanding the opportunities for the PCs to collaborate or compete, and in this case, a diversity of plot hooks does not help; each PC is free to run after his or her own problem.

However, I concede that that is probably based on my experience of Birthright campaigns. I don't think I've played in an adventure-based Birthright campaign for ten years... not that I haven't wanted to...

[kgauck]

I think most regents game have no clear victory conditions, they are entirely open ended. In Anuire, goals like the Iron Crown, and threats like the Gorgon provide clear indications of victory and defeat.

In any game, whether in the Highlands, Anuire, or anywhere else, I think individual domains should have individual victory conditions. Halskapa, for instance, has lost provinces. Getting them back should be a major victory.

In the Highlands, feuding should be a regular and persistent random event. The long term effect of feuding can be to reduce the law holdings loyal to the crown. However, the crown is normally forbidden by custom from intervening in feuds. Intervention can reduce the loyalty of Jarls and provinces. Feuds can also escalate when the contending families do not share a common overlord.

[AndrewTall]

In Ruins of Empire Bjorn gave every domain goals, some major some minor. Some of these goals require co-operation between regents, some encourage opposition - add in joint pasts (regents may have fostered together, fought besides each other, etc) and story aims (regent A wants their daughter to marry regent B's son) and adventures should be able to drag in several domains - particularly if each player plays several characters in the domain to permit dissension between the goals of a character and their domain.

[rjurikwinds]

In any game, whether in the Highlands, Anuire, or anywhere else, I think individual domains should have individual victory conditions. Halskapa, for instance, has lost provinces. Getting them back should be a major victory.

Totally agree; same with Hogunmark: they lost several provinces to the white witch... and any good Rjuven would become legendary if he was able to defeat the Blood Skulls or the White Witch.

In my Rjuven games I often bring the Gorgon in as well; Mostly because people are use to Anuire and that beast's threat is... well scary. On top of that the Giantdowns is a good place for a fight; desolate, scarcely populated, and the Gorgon's crown just across the Ruide river... So have the Gorgon skip through the Downs, and takeover the Blood skull, and you have one worried bunch of Rjuven kings...

[kgauck]

The Giantdowns is a good place for a fight; desolate, scarcely populated...

The scarcely populated part makes the Giantdowns impassable for armies. How many units can subsist on the produce of the province depends on how many people you think are in a province.

Normally a province consumes 90% of its produce so only 10% is even available for armies. Armies that consume more mean population declines. Most action takes place before the harvest, so living off the land requires both hardship for the local population and keeping the total number of units below 1:40 of the local productive population.

Some provinces, say those who produce mining, import food, so have an even lower ratio of food to native population.

[AndrewTall]

I disagree with Ken on the Giantdowns, but mainly b/c I work on the assumption that it is too humanist in approach - I'd see no problem with having reasonable levels of goblins and giants around who could be conquered and then support an army making the giantdowns a new Markazor. As a more desolate land, the Giantdowns is a snack en route to the Barony that can be forgotten about one local supplies are sourced from conquered lands - or the baronies population could support the Gorgon's troops as they munch their way along the Taelshore.

The downside with the Gorgon invasion is that it eliminates competition between PC regents - at least the sane ones. With the Gorgon in play the king who seeks to 'reclaim lost provinces' or suchlike isn't just threatening one rjurik realm, they are threatening the rjurik as a whole - its stand together or fall apart. Similarly such a scenario threatens the barony hugely, the moment the Gorgon starts conquering the downs, the Barony is an obvious ally and supporter - so the Barony goes from nuisance to threat for every single neighbour - and the barony is likely to be annihilated.

If you want a big bad in play, you could have one of the Gorgon's general's invade - if they win then they are rewarded by the Gorgon with a dukedom over much of the land, if they lose then he's lost no face - rumours of similar attacks on the Anuireans and Khinasi or Brecht lend a sense of urgency - which nation will prove the soft touch for conquest that will be the focus of the Gorgon's hunger?

A less obvious big bad is Ghuralli, if he took the Barony and Downs he gets quite a handy power base - a short lived agreement to split Stjordvik with Rjuvik could make him a major threat.

Otherwise a resurgent giant kingdom, Anuirean invasion, new awnshegh (possibly a puppet of the white queen), an underground tunnel between the barony and Urga-Zai allowing them to join forces, etc could all lead to a big battle game. The spoilsport will usually be Lluabraight which can beat any foe barring the Gorgon, my worry with them is usually trying to figure out how Ghuralli and the Witch supposedly stole elven land...

[kgauck]

I disagree with Ken on the Giantdowns, but mainly b/c I work on the assumption that it is too humanist in approach

I don't disagree with anything you said, because I was intentionally only talking about humans. Presumably players are playing humans. Secondly, I can't speak to the supply needs of fantasic armies. That kind of thing is, by neccesity, something of a DM handwave. Either a fantastic army can or can't cross it. But since I was specifically addressing humans, because players control that, rather than monsters, which DM's control, I really don't see any disagreement.

If you look at a lot of the Highlands, especially outside the Taleshore, it gets very army unfriendly. But it is something of a trope, is it not, that where conditions are too hard for humans, some monsters dwell? Some monsters may be social and prone to organization by dark oowers, &c, &c.

[rjurikwinds]

I don't disagree with anything you said, because I was intentionally only talking about humans. Presumably players are playing humans. Secondly, I can't speak to the supply needs of fantasic armies.

True; I keep playing with unrealistic assumption that your unit maintenance payments (and movement costs) bundle-in the supply-route issue, even for human armies...

But I guess the problem is less likely to be a problem for an environment like the Tael-firth -- since you have the sea! It makes for an easy explanation of how armies get supplied whyle away (by the sea).

I'm wondering what InVinoVeritas will do about sea battle rules; one of the issues I've had during the Rjurik Winds campaign was the idea that some players wanted to "blockade" a province from the sea (cut sea-based traderoutes, prevent units from passing-through without a fight) -- I guess similar to wanting to cut-off supply routes for land-based armies (again, which I tended to ignore anyway).
Allowing a regent to "occupy" a sea-province sounds realistic enough, but then people talk about running the blockades (without a fight) and DC checks to pass through...