Updates on Lawsuits?

[SirRobin]

Recently I found myself in a Birthright mood again so I dug up my Birthright stuff and started doing some writing. Discovered I had lost my pdf's so I found where I had bought them originally and had downloads left. When I tried to download them again I got a message saying they were not available due to Wizard.

Found this when I was hunting around and then noticed this. Looking at their new policy I found this.

Can I open an online store only?

I'm sorry to say that we will not be able to help you.

If you have or are planning on having an exclusively internet store, you will not be able to purchase products from one of our authorized distributors, as by contact with us, or directly from Wizards of the Coast. We deal with traditional brick and mortar stores only.

If you do ever have a brick and mortar store associated with your business, you may contact us about getting a distributors list or opening an account directly with us, but of course we will ask for proof of that actual storefront at that time.

But Why?

Currently Wizards feels that supporting retailers with storefronts is better for the over all support of our products. It's not just about making the sale but the interaction that consumers find at the retail level. Granted not all stores are great or take the time to demo, run league, or just interact with customers but most do who specialize in these types of games. And it has been these stores that have built our business to what it is currently. This all may change, as the whole nature of retailing changes but for now we will continue to support retail shops while looking ahead.

So, any updates on these lawsuits? Just wondering if I'm stuck using "other" means to restock my lost stuff.

[cyrano24100]

Yeah, I've only got a few pdfs; most of my material is print (Thank Erik, Haelyn, Avani and Nesirie!)

At this point the motus operandi is "Don't loose your pdf's" -- no one is allowed to sell them anymore.

Personally i run a website with BR related info and I ask for people to have "access" to original BR rules, which is nearly impossible to get... I don't think I'll get sued because I don't "distribute material" (and again I ask people to have their own), but for people I DM, it's only natural that I'd have to share some material in the course of a game. Here again I'm always scared of WoC.

I sure wish they had an open policy towards old material, but I understand where they come from - I'm very familiar with copyright law, and in their position I would probably do the same thing; prohibit republication of old intellectual property in order to prop up sales of new material. We are in a world where companies merge with their competitors in order to destroy them; So for birthright material you are out of luck, which is why I favor the br.net's efforts at producing updated rules (even for 4th edition, which I personally can't be brought to play)

[SirRobin]

True, I see where Wizards is coming from but I figure it's a pretty back asswards position to take in an increasingly online age. Reminds me of what newspapers are going through. Still, they bought it so they can do whatever they want to with it. Honestly I've always been a little surprised that they let fan sites like this show as much as they do. So kudos to them for that at least.

Yet, to be honest, I've never been much of a D&D "player." I've always been a "daydreamer" so I purchased rpg stuff, over the years, for the stories and artwork within them. Gave my restless brain fertile ground to explore, examine, and expand upon. I have no interest in buying "new" material. The golden age of the rpg is long over, in my opinion, and I have zero interest in buying any of the newer stuff. Yeah, wish I had not lost the originals, before they had "editions," from way back when. Actually had some pre-TSR, if I recall correctly. It's been so long that my memory is fuzzy. There was this drawing of a rack of weapons in one book that I still remember.

Way back when I had most of the Birthright material in print form too but it was lost many moves ago.

Right now though I'm quite curious about how these lawsuits will progress. They are well within their rights to change their policies but I doubt it would apply retroactively. Unless the whole "no online" thing isn't new. I figured that part was though I don't know for sure.

[Sorontar]

SirRobin sayeth:

Actually had some pre-TSR, if I recall correctly.

Um, what what table-top roleplaying was pre-TSR? I thought D&D (and its wargaming predecessor, Chainmail) was the first to be published?

Sorontar

[SirRobin]

I meant before Tactical Studies Rules became "TSR." But I think my memory must be wrong since that was the early seventies.
Actually I am wrong, memory working better after caffeine injection. This was my first D&D book.



I remember that cover.
I think that is the one that had that drawing of a bunch of weapons.

http://www.acaeum.com/ddindexes/setpages/basic.html

Whoa, was it really the early eighties? Holy crap that makes me feel old.

[dundjinnmasta]

That is a bunch of bs from Wizards. They aren't concerned with the Brick and Mortar stores at all but with the piracy of their products. They have already stated that they will be looking into alternate methods of allowing the digital products when they can make it "pirate-proof" which isn't going to happen, period, the end. I hope Wizards likes to throw away money because that is what they are going to be doing with their current knee-jerk reaction towards piracy. I wonder if anyone told them that the IRAA & MPAA are running out of money and that is why their counter-piracy efforts are sinking because it just isn't profitable to fight piracy with all the different international laws. I love 4E but Wizards is getting dumber by the month and they need to wake up and smell those beans then get the pdf products back out there.

[Elton Robb]

I sure wish they had an open policy towards old material, but I understand where they come from - I'm very familiar with copyright law, and in their position I would probably do the same thing; prohibit republication of old intellectual property in order to prop up sales of new material.

* sigh *

I'm sick of this whole stupid thing, and I'm leaning very far on the Libertarians' position of no Copyright. I think it's being abused too much to be of any use anymore. I think we should get rid of them altogether. Or, 15 years individual copyright; and for the life of the publication + 7 months for Corporate copyright.

[kgauck]

Most people who write for a living, and game designers are certainly in that boat, earn far less than others who have the same level of education. Taking away copywrite reduces their income still further. Especially in the smaller companies.

If some guy invented a game in the 80's and there is still interest in it, and copies are occasionally sold, why should he not get paid? He did something, added value that someone else is willing to pay for.

Remove copywrite and you remove not only an incentive to write for a living, but in many cases the possibility of doing it. If game designers need a day job to pay the bills and game design becomes a hobby (hobby = work with no pay) the amount of game goodness we consume must decline significantly.

Plus, Elton, how would you feel if whenever you created a render, other people could use it, make money off of it, and never had to credit you or pay you for using your labor and creativity?

[Elton Robb]

Most people who write for a living, and game designers are certainly in that boat, earn far less than others who have the same level of education. Taking away copywrite reduces their income still further. Especially in the smaller companies.

If some guy invented a game in the 80's and there is still interest in it, and copies are occasionally sold, why should he not get paid? He did something, added value that someone else is willing to pay for.

Remove copywrite and you remove not only an incentive to write for a living, but in many cases the possibility of doing it. If game designers need a day job to pay the bills and game design becomes a hobby (hobby = work with no pay) the amount of game goodness we consume must decline significantly.

Plus, Elton, how would you feel if whenever you created a render, other people could use it, make money off of it, and never had to credit you or pay you for using your labor and creativity?

I support the limitation of copyright. It's getting out of hand, because if copyright is carried in perpetuity, like what they are trying to do; generations down the road won't be able to enjoy what we are producing.

Although getting rid of copyright is sound, the best thing to do is to limit copyright. 15 years for the individual, and for a Corporation: for the life of the publication +7 months. Therefore, if a company takes a product out of publication, its copyright runs out in seven months.

The true danger about Copyright is that its outdated in today's Information age. Take this except from The Libertarian Case Against Intellectual Property Rights for an example:

"More importantly, modern electronic communications are simply beginning to make copyright laws unenforceable; or at least, unenforceable by any means short of a government takeover of the Internet — and such a chilling threat to the future of humankind would clearly be a cure far worse than the disease. Copyright laws, in a world where any individual can instantaneously make thousands of copies of a document and send them out all over the planet, are as obsolete as laws against voyeurs and peeping toms would be in a world where everyone had x-ray vision."

This is so true. The only way we can aquire 1st edition and second edition materials right now is through peer-to-peer download torrents. They'd have to be scanned by someone and put up on the Internet by that someone. Wotsey took a foolish stance by taking everything down when they found out that someone pirated a book of theirs.

Wotsey punished every honest man, woman, and child for what one pirate did. And that still doesn't stop piracy of their books. At all. As a result, they are depriving future generations of several of the greatest games in History and allowing piracy of Dungeons and Dragons 4e books to flourish.

Under current Copyright Law, they are allowed to do this. However, if D&D Org through 3rd were forced to go into public domain, either by limiting Copyrights or by revoking Copyrights; these games can be supported and printed by publishers who will print them. And radical and moderate Wotsey fans can still buy 4e. Wotsey wouldn't lose revenue.

After all, are Rich Baker and Colin McComb still getting royalties for sales of Birthright material? They aren't. So, what's good about holding on to something that you don't support?

So, what can someone do in light of infringement? Well in the case of infringement on their intellectual property, Wotsey really can start a boycott. If 4e is "stolen" and being printed by another producer, Wotsey can organize a boycott and tell people to buy the official version of 4e.

This version of 4e is our official version of the game, they say. Buy ours out of company loyalty. This will eventally force the other producer to either substantially revise the game (YAY!) or stop producing 4e (YAY!). Win-win situation.

Limiting copyrights maybe the best way to go; but the ideal situation is to repeal the laws that protect them altogether and let consumer justice outside Government enforcement take care of the rest.

Either way, future generations will profit (as Steamboat Willy will be available for everyone to watch, and 1st Edition AD&D will be available for everyone to play).

So, in the case of Birthright, without Copyright we'd get a BR for everyone. As you realize, Dundjinnmasta and Vicente are arguing for a 4e type of Birthright. And under current law it looks like they will get their way. However, we revoke Copyright and BR.net can stand to support those fans who prefer 2e and 3e for their Birthright; and fans of 4e can buy the Official version from Wotsey. Everyone wins, we can play Birthright the way we want.

Also Arjan would be able to publish a version of the wiki for rennumeration of his efforts as a non-profit. He wouldn't have to rely on donations to keep BR.net up. All of the proceeds could go to the upkeep of the website. Everyone wins.

[kgauck]

To hope for the failure of 4e to be willing to use the abolition of copywrite as a means to that end is throwing the baby out with the bathwater. You would kill the game industry. Perhaps you would prefer to see it in the hands of hobbyists, but people like John Wick earn an income, however merge from their writing. Without that income they would be like everyone else who had to get a job and leave gaming to occasional weekends.

Regarding the copywrite alarmism, most of the issues surrounding the internet could be resolved with a return to the Fair Use rules that existed prior to the early 90's and good copy protection for content.

Reducing protection to publication +7 mos would make all of academic publishing impossible. No form of academic publishing remains active for more than 7 mos. While this might not make monographs impractical, it would destroy the very useful academic journals. Likewise for games which have very small print runs and often don't get re-printed.

I thought it was very cool for WotC to distribute materials as pdfs The fact that they had to stop is the fault of people who distributed their copies widely. Just as its the fault of thieves that we have to lock our doors, its the fault of thieves that we have to lock away the game content.