Updates on Lawsuits?

[Thelandrin]

Well, I'm sure that their claim that piracy forced them to stop is just an excuse to recall all non-4th Ed stuff and get people to buy that exclusively. You most certainly do not fight piracy by yanking all legal sources and thereby requiring even the honest people to pirate the PDFs, rather than buy them legally.

[SirRobin]

Sorry, but I have trouble believing that Wizards demanding distributors stop selling .pdf's has anything to do, really, with piracy issues. This stinks of a desperate attempt by Wizards to corner the electronic market for their material so they can unveil an in-house operation.

They want all the money from pdf sales, not a cut, fee, quid pro quo, or whatever arrangement they had with the electronic distributors previously.

I strongly suspect they'll try some sort of subscription service, member fees, limited views, etc... on top of a more expensive price per .pdf (than we were paying) that they'll be charging.

This feels like a company trying to squeeze every penny they can out of their target audience.

Meh, they own it so they can legally do whatever they want to with it. I'm just thankful that I'm old enough, and cheap bastard-ish enough, that I won't worry about paying for whatever scheme Wizards comes up with. I'm grateful that sites like this exist but if they didn't, or get shut down by new lawsuits, I'll get by on what I already have or what I can remember.

I'll let the younger folks that want Wizards material pay their prices... or find ways around them.

[kgauck]

You most certainly do not fight piracy by yanking all legal sources and thereby requiring even the honest people to pirate the PDFs, rather than buy them legally.

That's how the music industry did it before iTunes developed software to prevent songs from being distributed after they were sold. But the game industry doesn't have an iTunes to invest on protections to the content they sell by developing copy-protection.

[kgauck]

They want all the money from pdf sales, not a cut, fee, quid pro quo, or whatever arrangement they had with the electronic distributors previously.

They were already getting all the money from these sales. The cost of distribution are basically zero. Distributors wanted these pdfs because customers picking of the Tome of Magic might also pick up other products. Some retailers sell this kind of material as loss-leaders, they actually sell it below cost to attract customers.

They already controlled the price (as do all manufacturers) and they already got all or nearly all of the sales price, paying nothing or nearly nothing to the distributor. They have nothing to gain by pulling the pdfs except preventing piracy.

[SirRobin]

They were already getting all the money from these sales. The cost of distribution are basically zero. Distributors wanted these pdfs because customers picking of the Tome of Magic might also pick up other products. Some retailers sell this kind of material as loss-leaders, they actually sell it below cost to attract customers.

They already controlled the price (as do all manufacturers) and they already got all or nearly all of the sales price, paying nothing or nearly nothing to the distributor. They have nothing to gain by pulling the pdfs except preventing piracy.

Really?

I got the impression that Wizards agreements with the third party electronic distributors were more fee, cut, msrp, or some other style. Not direct price fixing. I don't have any evidence of it, mind you, just the impression I got.

Sort of like used car salesmen. They buy, rent, etc... the right to sell it.

Is Wizards previous arrangement with the electronic distributors listed anywhere?

[Thelandrin]

You also know as well as I do, Kenneth, that that doesn't prevent piracy at all. Once the genie is out of the bottle, it won't go back. I'm sure that anyone who wants a pirated PDF can find one without trying too hard. It's grossly incompetent at best and anywhere from disrespectful to the fans to downright avaricious in attempting to control the PDF industry.

[kgauck]

The law only grants copywrite protection to people who make an effort to protect their IP. It doesn't have to be successful, they only need to say they did something. This strategy may make no sense in terms of actual piracy, or marketing, but its perfectly sensible in terms of the law.

Which probably means lawyers made it.

[Vicente]

The law only grants copywrite protection to people who make an effort to protect their IP. It doesn't have to be successful, they only need to say they did something. This strategy may make no sense in terms of actual piracy, or marketing, but its perfectly sensible in terms of the law.

Which probably means lawyers made it.

One question: that's in the USA? (I'm pretty sure in Spain this works different).

Also, about the PDFs itself: I don't like it either, but using that as an excuse to pirate is just trying to justify what it doesn't have justification. If you don't like their decissions, show them with your wallet: don't buy WoTC products and support instead other publishers with business models that you like and think should be successful.

In the end, there's nothing more powerful than that.

[SirRobin]

True, but for someone like me Wizards already lost my business. Well, at least for any new material produced. My only interest was to fill, or refill, my collection of old "Birthright" material.

I have zero interest in their new, or newer, products so the only thing this does to me is keep me from re-downloading material I had already purchased a ways back.

[Mirviriam]

The point of this site is to keep Birthright alive.

Discussing or painting a dirty/angry/distraught/emotional disagreement with the system they have in public does not help that idea.

Can we find a way to generate interest in the game again? I remember in 2002-ish there was a push of new members as people from old group started to return to Birthright site after the new forums?

One of the reasons I was asking - was what if we had a PBEM/Play by board that ran solely on the website - no emails needed. Are we then in essence running a computer game - violating sierra's electronic copyright?

What if we make most of the actions automated - where the website processes all but a few actions for the GM?

What happens if we don't advertise but said automated system is linked to through a face book / myspace (I know odd, weird, unwanted whatever) type system - where the 3rd party advertises on their site & wraps our system in ads?