Other Systems

[Diongham]

I may be blacklisted for this but a couple of systems have caught my eye lately and was wondering if anyone had thoughts our opinions on either one of these.

The first is The Riddle of Steel. I LOVE! the combat system so much, conversions may take some time but I think the style could translate to a grittier, more realistic depiction of what Birthright could be. It wouldn't be an exact version, but give it a darker undertone.

The second is Pendragon. That already has a lot of style of Birthright, with multi-generational adventures, land holdings. Plus it adds a bit of realism.

All in all I prefer The Riddle of Steel for the shear brutality of it all. What are some of your thoughts? Other systems that would make a good Birthright conversion, and what do you think of my suggestions?

I realize I don't have any clout but this topic interests me. Rule heavy topics just get to clogged up with rule lawyers arguing over this mechanic and that.

[kgauck]

Pendragon turns up from time to time in the posts of several of the frequent posters here, either as inspiration, or alternate rules set.

I haven't heard of Riddle of Steel, so I'll google around and see what people are saying.

The idea of Birthright under a different rules system is probably as old as Birthright itself, and certainly gained steam with the introduction of a new edition with 3.0. The general consensus is that what makes BR is either the setting (Cerilia, its backstory, &c) or the domain level of play and its implications.

We welcome discussions of BR in other systems, just be prepared for folks to suggest still other alternative systems.

[Birthright-L]

At 01:48 AM 5/3/2009, Diongham wrote:

>I may be blacklisted for this but a couple of systems have caught my
>eye lately and was wondering if anyone had thoughts our opinions on
>either one of these.

Maybe it`s because BR has been out of print for so long, or maybe
it`s because the setting itself sometimes has concepts that don`t
particularly manifest well in any particular version of D&D, but
nobody minds discussions of using other systems for the setting, and
there`s no particular mandate not to raise such an issue. Lots of
other systems have been suggested in the past.

>All in all I prefer The Riddle of Steel for the shear brutality of
>it all. What are some of your thoughts? Other systems that would
>make a good Birthright conversion, and what do you think of my suggestions?

As a general rule, I am leaning more and more away from any system
that advances characters up the way D&D does, particular for
something like BR. That is, using a level advancement system that
scales as quickly as D&D. This isn`t really a criticism, it`s just a
personal esthetic. I`ve used D&D before and had fun with it. But
the way characters advance in D&D seems to run counter to many of the
ideas of BR, and is simply more apt for other types of setting
material. Personally, I`ve tweaked D&D enough times that I don`t
think a lot of folks would really recognize it as any edition of the
rules, and I`ve done that in order to portray things that, as often
as not, come from Birthright. Ironically, I find some Birthright
issues to be extensions of old D&D ideas that were, back in the day,
the kinds of things I found most interesting about RPGs--but the D&D
rules have gone further and further away from those ideas, so I`m
less interested in playing those rules.

Lately, I like rules that have simple skill and task resolution
systems, and ones that use the dice themselves as measures of skill,
power, etc. A d6 weapon or a d8 weapon. Characters have "d10" in
Negotiation. Stuff like that. There are several sets of rules that
do things like that and they work perfectly well, have an epic feel
and don`t scale up as D&D does.

Gary

[Diongham]

Pendragon turns up from time to time in the posts of several of the frequent posters here, either as inspiration, or alternate rules set.

I haven't heard of Riddle of Steel, so I'll google around and see what people are saying.

The idea of Birthright under a different rules system is probably as old as Birthright itself, and certainly gained steam with the introduction of a new edition with 3.0. The general consensus is that what makes BR is either the setting (Cerilia, its backstory, &c) or the domain level of play and its implications.

We welcome discussions of BR in other systems, just be prepared for folks to suggest still other alternative systems.

First things first. Riddle of Steel is a pretty hardcore rules system supported by ARMA (Association for Renaissance Martial Arts). Very detailed oriented and fairly complex, that drew me in first, but the Spiritual Attributes hooked me. Similar to Pendragon's virtues and passions but less restrictive. i.e. You either have a conscious or not.

The setting would be a pretty hard undertaking, having to covert characters to a new system would be fairly difficult. I'd think the domain play wouldn't be as hard just to make a home brew stuff that deals with all the aspects of Birthright's system to the new one.

And finally. That's why I started the thread . I even have a few more suggestions. FATE and Fudge. FATE is based on fudge and is just as rules-lite as Fudge is. Fudge even has a semi-similar, if not less detailed Interactive History that one is setting undetermined and the other is Amber based I believe. Oh yeah, btw Fudge is free and FATE is free if you get 2nd or 3rd edition. FATE has a very involved community and a Yahoo group. Fudge seems to have been lost to the ether for some reason. They both use custom 6 sided dice of two "+" two "-" and two "0". Though you could just as easily use d6.

[Diongham]

At 01:48 AM 5/3/2009, Diongham wrote:

>I may be blacklisted for this but a couple of systems have caught my
>eye lately and was wondering if anyone had thoughts our opinions on
>either one of these.

Maybe it`s because BR has been out of print for so long, or maybe
it`s because the setting itself sometimes has concepts that don`t
particularly manifest well in any particular version of D&D, but
nobody minds discussions of using other systems for the setting, and
there`s no particular mandate not to raise such an issue. Lots of
other systems have been suggested in the past.

Just didn't want to earn any ire from a long standing community to a total noob.

[Elton Robb]

The second is Pendragon. That already has a lot of style of Birthright, with multi-generational adventures, land holdings. Plus it adds a bit of realism.

There are certain parts of Pendragon that I can shoehorn into AD&D 2nd Edition that would work for Birthright. The Traits and Passions system for one. I'd throw out alignment and put in the Traits and Passions system into AD&D. Incidentally, I'd also throw out the AD&D combat system and replace it with Arms Law and Spell Law.

I'd have a better game, all around. No more Lawful Stupid paladins.

[dundjinnmasta]

Green Ronin's new Song of Ice and Fire RPG had me thinking about a Birthright adaption. I also half-heartedly worked on a Birthright adaption of the L5R rules system. And of course I am activate in bringing Birthright to 4E.

[Lee]

Green Ronin's new Song of Ice and Fire RPG had me thinking about a Birthright adaption.

I will echo this, I just received it this weekend. The Noble House chapter certainly seems adaptable to BR. It allows one to make up a House (minor, or possibly major) and then describe its assets and history, mostly with random dice. {I am a fan of lots of randomness in generating things.} There's a nice bit on heraldry there, too.

The rules are simple enough, using d6 only, roll some and keep most, a bit like old (d10) 7th Sea.

Of course, there is hardly any magic at all, so one would need to plug in some other system.

If my likely-next game of BR didn't include a half-elf sorceror and a paladin as key PCs, I would like to try using these rules for it.

[Diongham]

Green Ronin's new Song of Ice and Fire RPG had me thinking about a Birthright adaption. I also half-heartedly worked on a Birthright adaption of the L5R rules system. And of course I am activate in bringing Birthright to 4E.

Never heard of the former. Though the latter I have heard OF. I'll have to check them out. The idea of a Oriental Birthright sounds intriguing.

[dundjinnmasta]

I am not going to have an oriental birthright. I am just going to use the mechanics for a Birthright setting.