Kenneth Gauck wrote:

>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Peter Lubke" <peterlubke@OPTUSNET.COM.AU>
>Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2002 7:30 AM
>
>
>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>From: "Peter Lubke" <peterlubke@OPTUSNET.COM.AU>
>>>Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2002 12:23 AM
>>>
>>>>Just because he has access to espionage doesn`t qualify him for agitate.
>>>>
>>>So, spies have never spread rumors that have inflamed the populous?
>>>
>>of course - but that`s using spies - not a holding. I thought we`d
>>already agreed that espionage could create an event.
>>
>
>You are now aware that in less than seven hours you have taken two opposite
>possitions. You ended your 12:23 post this morning saying "doesn`t" and now
>at 7:30 you say "could".
>
Yes, did you read the posts between ? It seems that unlike you, I
actually read the other side`s argument, and consider it carefully to
determine if it has merit before replying.

I stated that: Yes, regents can create events (with espionage) --
acknowledging the validity of the point raised (that espionage can do
so), I raised the question of whether this was (i) an additional event,
or (ii) replaces the next event without a die roll. I argued that - to
be consistant, and to preserve anonymity most perfectly, it should
replace the roll for a random event in the next turn. I also pointed out
that "such as" did not "open up" to any and all events (as was
erroneously suggested), but that the presence of "such as" was a
restricting qualifier - restricting the events not to those in the list,
but to activities with results similar to those listed. Under no
circumstances does espionage count as a backdoor for an agitate action -
even though it may achieve the same result in some cases. And lastly, a
minor point only, that espionage being available anywhere, to anyone,
has been debated in the past as being too powerful - while everyone has
spies etc, only regents with guilds have powerful spy networks.
Character actions (adventure) are always available to any regent to
create the same effect as agitate also.

If you can show good argument for a case, I`ll certainly take it on
board. What I`ve mostly heard so far from you is: "I`ve been playing it
wrong, and it hasn`t been working for me. I want a better system." With
lots of arguments that the event mechanisms, are indirect proof that
agitate should be available as an action to regents without holdings -
despite direct evidence to the contrary, and that loyalty should be
adjusted on the fly - despite evidence to the contrary.

Further, I presented a case that - should you work through it with your
alternate system or interpretation should answer some questions you have
been unable to supply so far. The main case included eight(8) potential
changes of loyalty in one domain turn using legal actions, while a
second case being a modification of the first presented a slightly
different scenario. There were upwards of 10 simple questions designed
to highlight the salient snapshots of a province under political attack
using the BR sequence of play. I presented answers to those same
questions as pose the challenge that you answer in kind. From a
comparison of both results it should be possible to determine firstly,
what salient practical difficulties arise, and secondly, whether your
alternate method shows any value beyond the standard ruleset.

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