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  1. #1
    Member Arentak's Avatar
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    Class: Magician: Another why?

    Magicians seem a bit overpowered as regents. They got set up to be very similiar to Beguilers (PHB2), who take the role of Rogue and Wizard and do both nearly as well. I had a player who reviewed the rules, and decided he wanted to be a Magician, because of the skill points, and the way the online version created at this site does regency collection, skills are all that matter for a regent.

    Fundamentally, I think no one should ever want to be a magician when wizard is an option. Magician is a wanna-be class. I would treat it like adept or something. The way its written seems too strong to me. Set it up with 2 skill points, like Clerics or Wizards, what, since they are gimps at spellcasting they suddenly get more skill points?

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    Site Moderator kgauck's Avatar
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    The design of the magician, for better or worse, was not intended to be a gimped wizard, but to be a balanced class, as good as any other class.

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    Member Arentak's Avatar
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    That would make sense then. The Magician is very balanced as a real class

    From the actual published BR Campaign Setting
    "Wizards who are restricted to lesser magic are known as Magicians in Cerilia. Magicians much work much harder at their craft...Magicians must be more creative in their spellcasting due to their limited choices of spells...Magicians are..specialists in either Divination or Illusion...They can only cast 1st or 2nd level spells from other schools."
    In the 2E world, one would be daft to choose to be a Magician. Its a curse, a weakness, but here its a choice. I'll houserule them out when I DM, in any event, but I don't get why it should be a real class. PC arcanists should be wizards in Birthright.

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    Site Moderator kgauck's Avatar
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    The designer(s) of the class had the option of making it a PC class, or an NPC class. One may well prefer the Magician to stand along side the Adept and the Warrior as NPC's, but that was not where the authors of this class went with it.

  5. #5
    Birthright Developer irdeggman's Avatar
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    Also read the information in the Book of Magrecraft on Magicians - they expanded on the class quite a bit from the core rulebook.

    Weaker than wizards but more versatile, better weapons and skills and spontaneous casting of all cantrips.
    Duane Eggert

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    Birthright Developer irdeggman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arentak View Post
    That would make sense then. The Magician is very balanced as a real class

    From the actual published BR Campaign Setting

    In the 2E world, one would be daft to choose to be a Magician. Its a curse, a weakness, but here its a choice. I'll houserule them out when I DM, in any event, but I don't get why it should be a real class. PC arcanists should be wizards in Birthright.

    Since you have to be a scion (or an elf) in order to be a wizard - I strongly disagree with this standpoint.

    Now if all PCs are scions then it makes sense but there are quite a few groups who focus on adventure level games and not domain level ones that a non-blooded class is a good idea.

    Also note that in 2nd ed a magician by the fact that the character had to be non-blooded automatically gained a 10% xp bonus.
    Duane Eggert

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    Site Moderator AndrewTall's Avatar
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    Social norms also play a big role, magicians are tolerated in the Rjurik Highlands and Vosgaard far more than mages. I'd see that as true in Anuire / Brechtur as well - 'real' wizards are a threat to the churches claims to godly righteousness...

    The Magician, like all classes, should be balanced across all game levels, in combat they suffer, in casting realm spells they are non functional, but they can get by as other regents. I'd consider letting them gain RP from sources and maybe even cast illusion / charm domain spells if they were blooded - and I'd note that a mage stacked with a landed regent who can predict/watch enemy movements, transfer orders, create battlefield illusions, etc, is far more dangerous than a testosterone drenched wizard who thinks battle is him zipping ahead lobbing fireballs (and likely being pincushioned...)

    I see no reason not to say that restricted spellcasting should be countered by more skills, I'm not sure about the extra hp as they seem unnecessary. I'm not a fan of 'pc' and 'npc' classes - I think any L'X' character should be equally viable and 'weak' classes are a system failing, so if magicians are weak in your system I'd give them compensating skills or such like. I'd note though that with bards around they become somewhat redundant.

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    Member Exile's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by irdeggman View Post
    Also note that in 2nd ed a magician by the fact that the character had to be non-blooded automatically gained a 10% xp bonus.
    I thought that non-blooded magi had to be Magicians; but blooded magi could choose to be Magicians if they wished.

    Isn't Caliedhe Dosiere a high-level Magician, yet not merely blooded but also a regent?

    Certainly, I've seen a player designing a scion choose to be a Magician, as an IC rejection of the "war magics" of Wizards (and to specialise in divination).

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    Administrator Green Knight's Avatar
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    No, Caliedhe Dosiere is a specialist wizard - Diviner. One of the two types of specialist not found in BR - since divination/illusion is a magician specialty (that was in 2E, before the magician became something else entirely). Oh well, either he's just a special person, it its an inconsistency
    Cheers
    Bjørn
    DM of Ruins of Empire II PbeM

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    Ehrshegh of Spelling Thelandrin's Avatar
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    The magician studies Lesser Magic, something which non-blooded non-Elves can only access and which blooded scions and Elves cannot access. Just like there are no Elven magicians, there are no magician realm mages.

    Ius Hibernicum, in nomine juris. Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum sonatur.

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