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  1. #11
    Birthright Developer irdeggman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thelandrin View Post
    Queen Isaelie of the Sielwode is very much Elven. Do you mean Savane (Fhileraene's human bit of rough) from the awful mess that was PS Tuarhievel?
    Yup my bad.

    I don't have access to my books from where I am.
    Duane Eggert

  2. #12
    Site Moderator AndrewTall's Avatar
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    I'd say that the land's choice would be impacted by the bloodline. a tainted bloodline is likely simply to vanish unless a suitable heir is very close by very shortly afterwards.

    Michael Roele's true bloodline on the other hand could lie dormant for centuries and revive scores of leagues away should someone prove worthy.

    On the whole I go for DM fiat based on 'is their a suitable heir in spirit to both bloodline and last wielder' and 'does it make a fun story'. I used lands choice in Danigau to have a baron skipped over in favour of his 'wastrel' son simply to generate some familial discord.

    I like Ken's idea though as well - if the land's choice is simply the collective will of the ruled (i.e. all those who contributed the regency underlying the bloodline) then if they get together and formally choose someone then that person is quite likely to be seen as 'the land's choice'. That a ceremony would grow under the same name to try and encourage the process seems quite logical.

    Unfortunately Ken, we disagree over politics. I work with a lot of large firms many of which while nominally run by a single CEO don't really go in for tyrants, instead they have committees. I can safely say that nothing is ever decided honestly, fairly or in the least efficiently, too many ego's and agenda's are present.

  3. #13
    Ehrshegh of Spelling Thelandrin's Avatar
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    Agenda, being a Latin word, is already plural and certainly wouldn't be pluralised with a greengrocer's apostrophe! (Forgive the pedantry if you would...)

    Everyone knows that if you want to do nothing and still look busy, you form a committee. If you want to slow down any decision-making process, just suggest that people discuss the issue first. The land, being an absolute autocrat in this regard, would never be this limited.

    Ius Hibernicum, in nomine juris. Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum sonatur.

  4. #14
    Site Moderator kgauck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndrewTall View Post
    Unfortunately Ken, we disagree over politics. I work with a lot of large firms many of which while nominally run by a single CEO don't really go in for tyrants, instead they have committees. I can safely say that nothing is ever decided honestly, fairly or in the least efficiently, too many ego's and agenda's are present.
    If by honest you mean some kind of good government altruism that appears in so many of the PS's, I agree with you. We're talking about humans here.

    The barons who selected monarchs in England and France selected people who would advance their interests. They opposed Edward II and Henry III who were supporters of the arts, the church, and engaged in building programs. They loved Edward I and Edward III, who conducted wars that enriched them with constant plunder.

    The assemblies know what their interests are and they will without much error select someone who will fulfill that agenda. An assembly of guilders will select someone who will make them money, a military will select someone who will lead them to victories, priests will select someone who will bring them followers and/or their money.

    An Althing is dominated by bondi (yeoman, freemen) and they know their interests. Keep the lower classes in line and keep the powerful figures from oppressing the bondi. They won't accidentally elect someone who wants to wage interminable wars, tax the bondi, or strengthen the lower nobility.

    Notions of honest, fair, or efficient are basically so foreign to all kinds of human interactions (like politics of any kind) that they can be ignored in favor of people acting in their narrow interest.

  5. #15
    Site Moderator AndrewTall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thelandrin View Post
    Agenda, being a Latin word, is already plural and certainly wouldn't be pluralised with a greengrocer's apostrophe! (Forgive the pedantry if you would...)
    No worries, my latin was never good, indeed I still think the star trek legend was fine...

  6. #16
    Site Moderator Sorontar's Avatar
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    Since no-one has answered it, I'll repeat one of my previous questions...

    Can a non-regent pass on his bloodline to another using a method other than bloodtheft?

    I ask this because when I was developing the framework for the history of the Badger I imagined that he befriended one of the miltary commanders. The commander had a son who took over after the commander's death. However, the commander wanted his bloodline to go to the Badger on his death. The commander was not a regent or really a lieutenant, so how could he do it? Would he have to get the Badger to commit bloodtheft while he died?

    Sorontar

  7. #17
    Site Moderator kgauck's Avatar
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    Certainly you can invest a bloodline without being a regent. Its covered in the BoP.

  8. #18
    Site Moderator Sorontar's Avatar
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    Yeah, just found "Blood inheritance" on the wiki and I gathered it had some original source.

    And I would certainly say that Land's Choice could come into play here just as much as for regency, even though the connection to the land is not an issue.

    Sorontar

  9. #19
    Senior Member Elton Robb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kgauck View Post

    When Elton and I were going over the history of Avanil and Boeruine, he had written that the Sword Prince, Sethien Avan, had made a marriage alliance with Donald Boeruine but had married the Boeruine girl to his brother, in effect making his brother's decedents Avan+Boeruine, while his own would be not quite so fantastic. When Sethien arrogantly overlooked naming an heir and faced Donald in battle, they ended up killing each other, but Sethien had no designated heir.

    It occurred to me that it would be a profound irony if the Land's Choice selected Sethien's nephew, Veladin Avan, the product of Avan and Boeruine, in place of Sethien's own sons. So that's how we introduced that part of the story. Veladin Avan is Darien's father. It also makes Aeric and Darien 1st cousins once removed on both their mother and their father's sides.
    It was a profound, cruel Irony. When I wrote the "Sword Prince," I left him ambiguous for a reason. Sethien was based on an anime character I watched in Record of Lodoss War. Sethien I had made arrogant and devious to a certain degree. Sethien had a little bit of what makes Gavin Taele, Gavin Taele.

    However, having the "Sword Prince" show up in one of Taeghas' Succession Wars made a powerful difference in the way that Avanil was being governed. I wanted to show that the Avans were not all talk and no show. The "Sword Prince" was alluded to being the Principality's King Arthur, or King Henry V. As a Romance story, the High King was a powerfully alluded type. So the "Sword Prince" is Avanil's High King. The best way to show that was that he was the Land's Choice. I.e. he was chosen by all the land, and everyone hopes for the best.

    When Ken and I went over Boeruine's history, I wrote his biography from his point of view. I.e. he didn't know who, or what, the Sword Prince actually was. It was Ken's idea that Veladrin, the Nephew of Sethien, would be the "Sword Prince." Since I originally wrote the marriage scheme in the Third Treaty of Illien to be a slap in the face by Sethien; it was a powerful irony that Veladrin would be chosen. You see, it was never Sethien's intention to designate his brother or his offspring as heir. In fact, after he had conquered Boeruine and taken the Archduchy, he can reforge a dynasty.

    However, a freak thunderbolt killed him; having never designated an heir. As a result, his birthright went into the Land. Defeated, the Avanese retreated. So, the Avanese barons and nobles decided to choose, or if it was Supernatural or not, someone who can redress their wrongs and help Avanil get on the right track. Honestly, they chose Veladrin.
    Last edited by Elton Robb; 10-30-2008 at 05:55 AM.
    Regent of Medoere

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