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  1. #11
    Site Moderator Sorontar's Avatar
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    I wasn't talking about characters appearing in the BRCS. I was referring to the fact that we have three different methods for deciding how many (and what strength) blood abilities are "normal" for each blood score
    1. AD&D II version (see original rulebook)
    2. D&D 3.0 version (see original BRCS playtest)
    3. D&D 3.5 version (see approved BRCS ch 1 & 2)


    My question was "which of these versions is being used (if any) for the charcters in the wiki (not the BRCS)?".

    I ask this because I am wondering if people are just copying the scores and abilities across from the original AD&D sourcebooks/PS without converting the blood score up to the D&D 3.5 version (in order to make the keeping of the blood abilities balanced).

    Sorontar

  2. #12
    Site Moderator kgauck's Avatar
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    Bloodline and related material is from the Rulebook, and characters are copied straight out of source materials. The rest of character material is 3.5. The character boilerplate is the format from the DMG II.

    So as far as bloodline, 1. AD&D II version (see original rulebook)

  3. #13
    Site Moderator Sorontar's Avatar
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    So the characters are a mismatch of systems. This is not good. The characters need to be fixed so that they are either all AD&D, all D&D 3.5, or vague enough to be neither.

    The particular areas that need to be synchronised within a single charcter are:


    So if a character is given Feats and Skills, then make its blood stuff work according to the BRCS for D&D 3.5. Don't just give it what was in the original AD&D sourcebook.

    If the character is given NWPs then you can keep the original blood stuff from AD&D.

    Or if you can't do the conversions, either leave off the bits you can't do or mark which parts are still AD&D Birthright (since the wiki is mainly 3.5 like the BRCS).

    Sorontar.

  4. #14
    Site Moderator kgauck's Avatar
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    Characters should be 3.5, but not BRCS. I refuse to write characters for that piece of trash. Its entirely worthless in my opinion, and possible worse. I am not aware of a single regular contributor who has used any part of it until Namesless One added characters on the Southern Coast. It is absurd to consider it the standard for the wiki.

  5. #15
    Ehrshegh of Spelling Thelandrin's Avatar
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    I think that that comment is more than a little harsh. After all, it is fairly difficult for something to have BR-specific rules for 3.5 and not have them come from the BRCS - the Noble is a good example, even if alternatives (notably yours) have been provided.

    Ius Hibernicum, in nomine juris. Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum sonatur.

  6. #16
    Site Moderator kgauck's Avatar
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    All the things created by the OGL, and there is nothing you can find useful for BR without going to the BRCS? Surely you can point to the many times you have drawn from its treasure chest in the past two years?

  7. #17
    Ehrshegh of Spelling Thelandrin's Avatar
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    Well, I regularly pick BR realm feats and obviously the BR-specific skills come from the BRCS. The rest of the characters I build are mostly not from the BRCS, true.

    Ius Hibernicum, in nomine juris. Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum sonatur.

  8. #18
    Site Moderator AndrewTall's Avatar
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    The (admittedly few) characters I've built have been brcs - its the closest we have to a standard after all.

    That said I tend to prefer the fluf side of things so would prefer to have brcs/ogl/etc banners rather than enforce homogeneity.

    OG would then be OGL + 2e bloodlines (is that what you are using Ken?) with BRCs being direct from BRCS and whatever other system is used being noted and linked to an explanatory page.

  9. #19
    Site Moderator kgauck's Avatar
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    The old bloodscore, in which Arlando el-Adaba could have two blood abilities remains a critical part of the setting. Forcing conversion of all of these canon characters is a significant alteration of the setting. What argument can be offered to justify fundamentally changing how bloodline works, who will have abilities and who gets left out?

    Something like 40% of all characters in canon have bloodlines less than twenty. Important characters like Innis, Temias Coumain, Volse Redbedtehr, Anphelan Hallaravant, Antia Maricoere, Fhylie the Sword.

    Are they to be made great characters vying with dukes, or humbled, forced to give up their blood abilities because of the BRCS?

    And what justifies this? A concern with standard mechanics? Certainly this is not sufficient to so re-order the setting. A concern for balance? Why here on this point? Birthright characters have vast fortunes compared to standard D&D characters. They may command armies, or have entire domains at their disposal. But a few minor blood abilities is a crisis worth re-inventing the setting? This is roll play, indeed.

    I have seen no characters using the bloodline system therein, the feats, or classes from the BRCS, until very late.

  10. #20
    Site Moderator Sorontar's Avatar
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    Look at this from the view of an outsider who wants to start a 3.5 Birthright game. They would see:
    • a group of people who have designed a 3.5 variation (the BRCS)
    • a wiki of Birthright stuff designed by the same people
    • "complete" NPC descriptions and stats on the wiki


    Now, they might want to tweak some of the NPCs and make some of their own, but I expect that they would
    • design their own NPCs using the BRCS + house rules
    • expect the wiki NPCs to have already been designed according to either the BRCS or the original AD&D rules


    We know what has happened in reality, but they won't unless they look hard at the stats. Hence, the NPCs they make (using house rules + BRCS) and any unmodified NPCs from the wiki will not be balanced.

    Sorontar.

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